VGC Team Building: How to Counter Charizard | Pokémon Champi
Résumé
The Pokémon Champions | VGC Battles & Tournaments community discusses strategies to improve rain-based team matchups against Charizard. This thread analyzes specific Pokémon sets, including Pelipper, Archaludon, and Swampert, while debating the viability of niche picks like Milotic. Members share expert advice on move sets, EV spreads, and potential replacements to help players gain a competitive edge in the current VGC meta.
Pelipper (M) @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 32 HP / 18 Def / 16 SpD
Bold Nature
- Protect
- Weather Ball
- Tailwind
- Hurricane
Archaludon @ Metal Coat
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 21 HP / 16 SpA / 29 SpD
Modest Nature
- Protect
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- Electro Shot
Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 2 HP / 32 Atk / 32 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wave Crash
- Ice Punch
- Protect
- Earthquake
Sneasler @ White Herb
Ability: Unburden
Level: 50
EVs: 2 HP / 32 Atk / 32 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Fake Out
- Dire Claw
- Coaching
Farigiraf @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Armor Tail
Level: 50
EVs: 5 HP / 21 Def / 8 SpA / 32 SpD
Quiet Nature
- Imprison
- Trick Room
- Energy Ball
- Hyper Voice
Milotic @ Focus Sash
Ability: Competitive
Level: 50
EVs: 32 HP / 2 Def / 32 SpD
Calm Nature
- Coil
- Hypnosis
- Protect
- Waterfall
I’m trying to get a better Charizard matchup
Its funny to see teams with 3 water types struggle against yard
Is just so dominant
Hmm
Wait why are you using waterfall milotic???
Cuz of coil?
Yea
Usually people still use muddy water or scald even with coil
Why
Cuz it does more damage even after 1 coil I think
I think it still calcs better to use Muddy Water with no attack investment
I used energy ball farig and I solemly swear that it aint gonna beat the swamperts
They ohko you bfore
Is it worth to have milotic
You cam rockslide sneasler for zard.
Tbh id drop milo too much water
https://klipy.com/gifs/poop-diarrhea-1
Do I add Matcha bitch?
https://klipy.com/gifs/pokemon-pokemon-winds-and-waves-27
Im bias and put my goat sini on every team 😂
Ok
Doesn't help with zard tho
Well if we are being biased
https://klipy.com/gifs/pokemon-dragonite-7
What about Lake choice scarf guardchomp
You could use sash mamo to rock slide zard but it wont ohko
Chomp works
Some people use life orb mamo
But I think that sash is better
Max speed chomp out speeds zard so no need for scarf
Does ice shard ohko chomp
No
What about mega raptor?
A rockslide takes it to like 20% and shard finishes it
Ok
Raptor close combat does 50% but brave bird ohkos
32 Atk Staraptor-Mega Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 133-157 (86.9 - 102.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO - (31.1 - 31.1% recoil damage)
Discord sent us an expired image link.
Sorry, I meant guard versus mega raptor
Remember if all else fails there is always lycanroc
Oooh mb
32 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Rock Slide vs. 2 HP / 0 Def Staraptor-Mega: 43-51 (26.5 - 31.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
No
All good
Fighting resists rock
Neutral since it’s flying
Yeah
Still no damage tho
Ok
Id say mamo tbh fakeout with sneasler and rockslide with mamo
That should kill in one turn
But if he protects then your trading mamo for zard with a rockslide turn 2 shard turn 3
32+ Atk Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 2 HP / 0 Def Staraptor-Mega: 162-192 (100 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Venusaur he’s going to sleep me
Yeah true... if you can't clear it in an ohko you risk sleep
Are we talking about Charizard or raptor?
Both
Mamo will cover both of them
Chomp only covers zard
Ok
What do I run on? Mamo
Id run sash coz zard out speeds you
Ok
But a life orb will ohko zard.. but you dont outspeed.. so like he will just 1 shot you
Discord sent us an expired image link.
Thats what i calcd with but you can trade a move for protect if you want
Just out speed it
What would I use for my ground move?
Id say just go sash, rockslide to get him low finish with shard
You can go with earthquake if you can play around partner damage
Eq next to Peliper
But if you want single target horsepower
Ok
Is my mega raptor matchup any good?
In general
Then you have your counter for raptor, zard and mega chu,
I think so
Is there any other Megas that should be worried about? I’m doing a tournament tomorrow
Swampert arch and mamo clear raptor ez.
Ummm dont think so tbh.
Have a look at teams recently used in limitless tourneys
I meant I was doing one tomorrow
Metagross gets 2 hit by mamo
Yeah i mean see what megas were recently used in the last couple of tourneys to see what megas are common
1 by swamp Bert
There ya go ez then
Maybe floette
Thank you, you’re the goat
But arch gets her right?
I haven’t played enough for her to know
It’s really iffy
32 SpA Fairy Aura Floette-Mega Light of Ruin vs. 32 HP / 15 SpD Archaludon: 217-256 (110.1 - 129.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO - (65.2 - 65.2% recoil damage)
5+ SpA Archaludon Flash Cannon vs. 2 HP / 0 SpD Floette-Mega: 90-108 (59.6 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Do I need to put study?
Study?
No OHKO
Ooh ok arch.. idk id keep Stamina tbh.. too good for walling everything else.
You could.
But i would try and fake it out or set tr and clean it up
If you dont feel you need the defence boosts then yeah do it
Maybe test Sturdy arch today and see if you feel Stamina is better in general
Ok
Is there anything I can do to make the flower match up better
Do you need farig?
I keep it to deal with trick room
Because I can’t one shot other giraffes
Could always change farig for gambit.
Then you have 2 slow mons to fight in tr 3 if swamp out of rain
Ok
your our tr expert 3 tr mons should be okay right?
No need for farig?
I also keep it to help with tailwind
Just priority blocking is nice because it doesn’t care much about trick room but it’s not needed
Ok
Yeah i see the benefits.. but we can't add a move just to deal with flo sadly.. I think putting up with tr is our best bet
As for tailwind id just counter with my own 😂
I do keep my good match up in to incin
Yeah incin is cooked here
Ok
Rain team struggling against yard
Mamo isnt a fan tho but swamp and peli have him
It’s ironic, but when they start putting Charizard Y into teams
Rain teams
Yeah because it can kill fire types that way
And that team isn't even that hard to beat
The problem is, if you don’t face the team a lot you don’t know how to count it
You need to experience it to really build a plan i get that
What do I put on King gambit
If you have a plan into rain and a plan into sun you can work around it
What is the team rn
Pelipper (M) @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 32 HP / 18 Def / 16 SpD
Bold Nature
- Protect
- Weather Ball
- Tailwind
- Hurricane
Archaludon @ Metal Coat
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 21 HP / 16 SpA / 29 SpD
Modest Nature
- Protect
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- Electro Shot
Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 2 HP / 32 Atk / 32 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wave Crash
- Ice Punch
- Protect
- Earthquake
Sneasler @ White Herb
Ability: Unburden
Level: 50
EVs: 2 HP / 32 Atk / 32 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Fake Out
- Dire Claw
- Coaching
Kingambit
Ability: Defiant
Level: 50
- Kowtow Cleave
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
Mamoswine @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 50
EVs: 2 HP / 32 Atk / 32 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Rock Slide
- Icicle Crash
- High Horsepower
https://pokepast.es/bee454ceb93ae07c
How do you do that?
Ok so why are we metal coat sturdy
You go to showdown, build the team, click share pokepaste and copy site link
Ok
What do I put on King gambit for Ev and move moves?
Why are we metal coat sturdy arch
Flower matchup
Kingambit @ Black Glasses/life orb
Ability: Defiant
Level: 50
EVs: 32 HP / 32 Atk / 2 Def
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Kowtow Cleave
- Iron Head
- Protect/low kick
You have Sneasler and Archaludon is spdef for that reason
These EVs will make you think gambit is bad
What do you prefer?
Kingambit @ Black Glasses
Ability: Defiant
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 30 HP / 21 Atk / 5 Def / 10 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Kowtow Cleave
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance
- Protect
Tend to do this
But you probably want faster low kick on this team
Chople
Chople is good
Run that set
What is low kick good against
Ok
Should be ok
You could slot iron head somewhere
It's the whole problem with gambit just 4mss
Anyway I don't even like it here
Also if we are sturdy archaludon why the hell are we bulky
I forgot to change it
And if you wanna be bulky sturdy why is there no sinistcha
Other gambits and ttar
I’ve changed some things before I made the post
Ok
I quietly just copy this off my Xbox
I don't know about Mamo bere
Rain already wants too many mons why are we mamo
Charizard teams
And mega raptor teams
You're running rain 😭😭😭
If you are having trouble against yard with rain then there is no appeal to using rain
Run like sand or something
I mean, there’s a reason that Charizard is beating rain teams
I don't see it
Charizard is beating bad rain teams
Or teams without a plan into it
Charizard can make it so you just can’t use your rain
Not if you position well
It’s so dominant that doesn’t even matter
What rank even are you
Because they can choose when to set up the sun, unlike rain, you can only swap in
That has good yard users
I really don’t play champion
The only reason yard is good is because skill gap
I do most of it on showdown
Yeah what elo on showdown even better
1200 give or take
And there are good yard users there?
Yea
I don't see good yard users at 1500
What weather is your team?
No weather rn so supposedly even worse
They can also set it up manually
With priority
Whimsicott
What should I be running on Arch
Pelipper (M) @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 32 HP / 18 Def / 16 SpD
Bold Nature
- Protect
- Weather Ball
- Tailwind
- Hurricane
Archaludon @ Chople Berry
Ability: Stamina
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 21 HP / 16 SpA / 29 SpD
Modest Nature
- Protect
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- Electro Shot
Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 2 HP / 32 Atk / 32 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wave Crash
- Ice Punch
- Protect
- Earthquake
Sneasler @ White Herb
Ability: Unburden
Level: 50
EVs: 2 HP / 32 Atk / 32 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Fake Out
- Dire Claw
- Coaching
Kingambit @ Black Glasses
Ability: Defiant
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 30 HP / 21 Atk / 5 Def / 10 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Kowtow Cleave
- Sucker Punch
- Low Kick
- Iron Head
Mamoswine @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 50
EVs: 2 HP / 32 Atk / 32 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Rock Slide
- Icicle Crash
- High Horsepower
Pelipper (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 20 HP / 12 Def / 18 SpA / 16 SpD
Modest Nature
- Protect
- Weather Ball
- Tailwind
- Hurricane
Archaludon @ Chople Berry
Ability: Stamina
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 21 HP / 16 SpA / 29 SpD
Modest Nature
- Protect
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- Electro Shot
Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 2 HP / 32 Atk / 32 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wave Crash
- Ice Punch
- Protect
- Earthquake
Sneasler @ White Herb
Ability: Unburden
Level: 50
EVs: 2 HP / 32 Atk / 32 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Fake Out
- Dire Claw
- Coaching
Kingambit @ Black Glasses
Ability: Defiant
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 30 HP / 21 Atk / 5 Def / 10 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Kowtow Cleave
- Sucker Punch
- Low Kick
- Iron Head
Mamoswine @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 50
EVs: 2 HP / 32 Atk / 32 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Rock Slide
- Icicle Crash
- High Horsepower
rock types are amazing against chari Y rn
glimmora, mega glimmora, ttar, lycanroc dusk
probably more
let me check
aerodactyl, hisuian arcanine and maybe rampados for a trickroom option?
life orb, sheer force, stab rockslide with such an atk stat hits extremly hard
Discord sent us an expired image link.
Discord sent us an expired image link.
but rampardos is frail and slow
I got memo
Ooh we talking abt mamo?
Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
Ability: Oblivious
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 3 HP / 31 Atk / 32 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Spear
- Earthquake
- Protect
Obv if you want it to beat staraptor then icical crash better
