VGC Team Building Help: Optimizing Your Pokémon Core
ملخص
This discussion in the Pokémon Champions | VGC Battles & Tournaments server focuses on optimizing a VGC team core featuring Archaludon, Indeedee, Golisopod, and Pelipper. Community members debate the viability of Incineroar under Psychic Terrain and offer strategic advice on identifying team weaknesses to select the final two roster spots. It highlights the importance of counter-teaming and understanding complex Pokémon synergies to improve win rates in competitive play.
Basically I've been using this team for like a week or so but I have a problem. I only use the same 4 mons in the same order - archaludon indeede in the lead and golisopod and peliper in the back. The 2 other mons just dont do anything and I just never bring them and never feel like I should be bringing them and even with these 4 I have like 80% winrate with this team (yes I am at pretty low rank at like 1600 elo) but its better than anything I've played in champions so far.
So I just want to hear some suggestions for overall team improvements and the last 2 mons specifically.
There's a rather simple solution to this problem I think you yourself can fix. What teams are you currently losing to? You already said that Indeedee, Arch, Pelipper and Golisopod have like an 80% win rate - so then what about that other 20%? Who are you losing to, and then what pokemon can you add to counter that?
Also incineroar with psychic terrain on your team just does not work, cause it hurts your own incine's fake out.
This is patently false. Fake out is far from the only useful part of incineroar and this should be completely ignored
Dude. Incineroar's fake out is part of what makes it so good. Incineroar without fake out is like cereal without milk. Sure, it's still good, but it lacks what makes it the best.
Parting shot and intimidate both play equally good roles, but the anti-synergy is just too great imo
If you think fake out is what makes incineroar good, you should get more experience and not attempt to get any advice until you do
Wow. Dude I know what makes Incine good. Comes in to intim drop, has fake out pressure, and then parting shots out of there and then comes back in to do it all over again.
All three of those tools are equally important to one another. In my opinion, Incineroar is not worth running on psychic terrain teams because it loses fake out, one of it's three most valuable tools.
This proves you don't
Really? Then what makes him soooo good that ISN'T those three things, huh?
Being a bulky support with a deep move pool that pressures ghost, steel and dark types, resisting all 3 as well as more
You are clearly too new to be giving advice
So you're taking about offensive incineroar?
The best incineroar works as both
Incineroar is good because it is versatile
Yeah? Duh? But his offensive pressure has never been what makes him so strong. His intimidate parting shot fake out is what has made him so appealing. Take even one of those away and he suddenly becomes far more balanced (imo).
His offensive pressure has only been part of it, but not the main reason
I know
Parting shot has only been primarily used since champions.
That's just not true
Oh so you are NEW NEW
No, I'm not new new
what do you define as new new?
or even 'new'
Before champions he was primarily used with u-turn because of covert cloak
Parting shot was used, but far less
I suppose primarily parting shot hasn't been used more, yeah I guess you're right then
But still what do you define as 'new' or 'new new' because that really annoys me
I know I am right. Please get more experience before you give advice to other new players, respectfully
Because it is clear that champions is your first dip into competitive play
Okay so I usually lose when my Pokemon get randomly frozen by ice beam
It's not
I started in S/V
Actual competitive, not ladder
And incin is a leftover of my previous team
Fine. You win. I guess I'm 'new' to the VGC part of competitive as far as playing it. I have been exposed to it for a long time now and have been wanting to play in it for a while. I would like to say though you could be a little less prideful and maybe be gentler in correcting others because this interaction simply wasn't pleasant.
As far as this team goes, I personally would be dropping overqwil and incin here. I see the thoughts on trying to have a speedier option for when trick room expires or just isn't working. I would most likely go with Sneasler. With sneasler, incin become virtually pointless here. I would probably swap for a secondary mega. In my view M-Gardevoir is probably your best bet as a quicker psyspam option
I also was thinking about mega gardevoir
If you were in the other chat I would be gentler. You are attempting to give advice and pushed back when I called your inexperience out
I just have to get a gardevoir
Fucking gacha
If you have fairy or psychic tickets, use those with your pulls
Are there any fast psy spammers?
Timid gardevoir is about as fast as you get
Or delphox but the synergy with rain doesn't work well for you
I dont think there is
But I do have a choice scarf
I am thinking about scarfing something
Indeede male?
I wouldn't tbh
But I like the bulk of indeede female
With psyspam you want the ability to pivot if terrain changes
Or if dark types come into play
Oh yeah
Indeedee male works, but is more frail and doesn't work in trick room
Honestly I want an out of trick room mode
If you wanted a fast psyspam mode, you'll realistically want to drop golisopod
With rain I think maybe basc?
Honestly I dont think psy spam is that good rn
Basc is still good but you need to make sure you have specific answers to rillaboom. Basc is fast but very outsped outside of rain if you aren't scarfed
Indeede works fine as a redirector
Golisopod is good into rillaboom
Personally I try to avoid having that extra water type on the team if I can help it
Do I have to worry about rain not being up?
Rain is the most popular weather
It makes good match-ups better but bad ones much worse
With Charizard on decline
And tyranitar not being popular in the first place
Torkoal is still decently common as well as psysand in the higher ranks
I have flash cannon into tyranitar
Especially with so much of the meta shifting into countering rain
Okay so no basc I think
As a psysand enjoyer, I love seeing your team tbh. Sneasler is there to OHKO arch and ttar is a very solid defensive switch in
Oh yeah sneasler
Sneasler is a pretty big problem
I haven't played a lot of them
But its good
I basically only have peliper good into it
Gardevoir is good as long as indeedee is there to redirect the dire claw
I think gardevoir is good
We are probably looking at out of rain mode
So we get indeede and arch?
Gardevoir
Your psyspam mode will primarily be sneasler, indeedee, gard and both pelipper and arch should still work
You do have an issue into golisopod mirrors with this though
Arch is pretty good into golisopod
Electro shot deals over 50%
And it cant threaten back
As long as they aren't running drill run
Drill run is not stab
So its ass
I also have peliper
32+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Golisopod Drill Run vs. 32 HP / 1 Def Archaludon: 116-138 (58.8 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
32+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Golisopod Drill Run vs. 32 HP / 1 Def Archaludon on a critical hit: 174-206 (88.3 - 104.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
since it has heightened crit, this is relevant too
My arch is 0 def
That is negligible differences tbh. Doesn't even change the roll
Its very offensive
Yeah
Is your hp 32?
Ye
32 hp 29+ spatack
5 spdef
- spe
Minus spe
TBH that is backwards
Like I get what you are going for, but that is a FRAIL arch in this meta
I wanted as much value from psychic seed
Psychic seed benefits from higher sp def
Yeah
Thats why +5
Realistically I would be running that completely reverse. Like at least 20 sp def
Naw its more than enough
Because arch naturally boosts its SpA, especially modest
I lead arch
I want to get as much value as early as possible
Its like
Arch does damage at the start
I set up trick room
Golisopod cleans up
Arch is so op
Looking over the calcs, as long as you lead arch it doesn't feel too bad tbh
But you definitely don't have staying power
I think I would want to get some more def
But I dont think arch survies sneasler cc reasonably?
Arch can survive on a 50/50 roll
Not worth it
With no defensive investment*
Oh damn
These sneasler players are very lucky
I thought it was like 150%
For a 15/16 survival you would need 13 EVs into defense
Which isn't really worth it
Yeah
Just gotta get a +1
From stamina
Anyway
What gardevoir set?
Hyper voice protect exp force
Maybe non terrain based psychic move?
Eh?
Is 10 base power worth another move slot?
This and I usually run either calm mind or another bad matchup coverage move
I think maybe another trick room setter?
I wouldn't. Psyspam mode is not slow at all
Unburden sneasler and gard do not want to touch TR
Oh yeah its 100 base
I thought it was like 70
What sneasler set should I use?
Rn I have cc , taunt , dire claw and fake out
But its from my previous teams
I usually run sneasler with focus sash
Dump taunt and fake out and add protect and throat chop
I would also run white herb
Helps with matchups vs incin lead and more consistent to get unburden to proc
Okay so the team looks like this rn
Personally I wouldn't run swords dance on golisopod. I would run liquidation or drill run
Other than that it looks good. There is an argument you can make for wide guard over icy wind on peli, but both work well
Honestly bug steel is pretty bad offensively so I have to hit for not very effective a lot of the time
And while drill run might help its not stab so its ass
Not being stab is not the same as being bad
