Optimizing Sand-Trick Room Teams | Pokémon VGC Strategy

Hi

So you wanna make Mega Steelix work mostly?

But I'd like to more know before I start recommending hundred of things

Would Houndstone work as a Lycanroc replacement since Ttar-Steelix is a core built with Zard Y in mind

Plus Chomp’s natural good matchup into Zard Y?

I suppose Lycanroc isn’t reliant on sand as much as Houndstone would be, though it would help alleviate the fighting weaknesses currently plaguing the team

Tested this team three times in casuals, felt really good, never needed to actually bring in Ttar he was always in the back, or Lycanroc at all. Might consider Chople Berry on Ttar to survive Low Kick from Mega Ttar and Kingambit, if the focus is on one Mega. Incin/Chomp lead vs Whim/Zard Y lead is stupidly one sided, and between Disguise and Fake Out support Mimikyu gets trick room up more reliably than I thought.

Ok so um

Don't use mega steelix cuz as cool as he is life orb sheer force steelix hits harder and its not a good mega to combine with ttar defencively

Which matters given they are both kinda sluggish

I’m not sure I follow
Take the Life Orb off of Mimikyu, give it to Steelix, make Ttar my sole Mega, and give Mimikyu what? Mental Herb?

My idea is two variant sand modes; one in Trick Room and one without, using Chomp and Lycanroc for the faster version, and Steelix and Mimikyu for the other.

No no

I meant to try find another secondary mega or just replace steelix all together

Cuz they both share fighting, ground and water weaknesses while both being somewhat bulky and slow (atleast to begin with) and both being physical attackers weak to intimidate

They don't rly have good synergy

Mawile would prob fit similarly while the only weakness they would share is ground

Mawile is good ye

I’ll consider Mawile, just gotta dig her out the box

I mean I'd choose something like gard or delphox but thats cuz special physical but mawile works too

Ah ok

Hence Steelix’s inclusion; he’s the sand abuser IN Trick Room with its Mega’s Sand Force. The main difference between Life Orb Sheer Force and Sand Force Mega is that LOSF has the potential to threaten Flying types, while with Wide Guard Mega can be played more supportive, while Ttar can handle the Flying Pokemon it can’t directly threaten with High Horsepower or that don’t mind Mega Steelix’s Sand Force boosted Heavy Slam.

You absolutely got the response right, it’s just a matter of “how do I alleviate my fighting weakness and still have a suitable counter to Zard Y when not in the trick room variant”
I have Scarf Chomp, I think that’s answer enough between it and Tyranitar, who is coming to every variant alongside Incineroar. I should never really struggle against Zard Y teams that lack Venusaur, though the latter might present a problem.

👀

It came second in indie bfore reg mb where the life orb came back?

Limitless doesn't show anything

I'd say its the world champions difference

That was the #2 Indy team that IB was talking about
And with all due respect to Wolfe I am not gonna copy his Indy team

but he went undefeated in that tourney
i also dont like this team lol

Nope

He lost 2 matches, one bfore the final bracket and one in the finals

And also its freaking wolfe, bro made toxipex look good

I can move my current testing team to my main doubles team slot and a Talonflame version in the testing team slot. I don’t have membership so I’m limited to three and the third one is my current Singles team. I know that fact isn’t relevant to VGC but it does help make up for the VP drain that finding a specific Pokemon in game will have since I don’t have any game to bring Pokemon over from except Go.

Talonflame Sharp Beak Gale Wings Protect/Brave Bird/Whirlwind/Will-O-Wisp

Just transferred a Talonflame from Go. Is the moveset above what you had in mind?

I think U-Turn has defensive positioning benefits seeing as Tyranitar resists everything Talonflame is weak to save water, and vice versa.

I think U-Turn has defensive positioning benefits seeing as Tyranitar resists everything Talonflame is weak to save water, and vice versa.

Any assistance in testing would be nice, I don’t have a lot of time to do so since I work often

I don’t imagine Talonflame being on my TR mode, instead having Chomp/Incin/Ttar/Talon as my fast sand mode, with Mimi/Incin/Ttar/Steelix as my other TR mode

There’s enough defensive switch compatibility between Talonflame and the other members on the fast mode

Fair

Definitely let me know if Scrafty can compete, if I can remove a water weakness that would be ideal

This is an extremely fun looking team to play with. What are the common cores you’re bringing to each game? How do you differentiate when to bring Altaria over Steelix? Why Smooth Rock on Ttar over something more defensive for Ttar itself like Roseli or Chople Berry? What Pokemon should I avoid bringing together to avoid anti-synergy?

That’s fair

Keeping High Horsepower seems to do enough

I have noticed that the TR core itself is so solid that I can run it as is without much trouble, with Incin. The only issue is Farigiraf, though they have to have Imprison to be safe otherwise they give me Trick Room for free. Baited a Farig to put TR up for me by switching Mimikyu out for Ttar and letting me OHKO their Grimmsnarl with Mega Steelix Heavy Slam.

I suppose the only issue I’d have with the team is potentially rain since all four TR mons are VERY susceptible to rain shenanigans. I’m guessing that’s what Altaria and Scrafty was there to handle.

It’s all good, I appreciate the help with testing this team

The regulation will be the same once the season is over, why such a short time I wonder

Would Rotom-Mow be a good check into rain teams or is the threat of Pelipper Hurricane too high for that?

Scarf Mow would be faster than Zard Y, Swift Swim Mega Swampert, wouldn’t be redirected by Sinistcha, credibly threaten Basculegion, and threaten Pelipper, especially alongside Ttar support

I have tested a variation of this team on Champions (since I forgot I already pulled a Scrafty and wasted so much VP trying to get another one) and it still helps with solidly locking down the game with Scrafty over Incineroar, while still not being afraid of Kingambit. I still don’t have an Altaria so I had Garchomp on instead, but I haven’t been bringing Talonflame or Garchomp to any matches yet bc the core of Scrafty/Mimikyu/Tyranitar/Mega Steelix is just so solid. I have Chople Berry on my Ttar and in sand I was able to survive a Mega Blastoise Mega Launcher boosted Aura Sphere even with a third of my health already gone from a Matcha Gotcha.

I was thinking Rotom Mow in place of Altaria since it’s the dedicated deletor of rain, but again I haven’t gotten the chance to try Altaria yet for one, and two Fairy type special damage is just too good to pass up on

I can see why
I wouldn’t really tend to bring Chomp if I’m bringing the trick room mode since having Scrafty is so important to my game plan to set up Trick Room relatively safely, but having a faster mode with Talonflame/Garchomp/Scrafty/Tyranitar exerts so much offensive pressure that even with a Perish lead of Mega Gengar (idk why they lead Kingambit and not Incineroar but that’s just me) I can comfortably ignore Mega Gengar until it burns its Protect

Like what situations have you brought Altaria to matches to have that fantasy core? Would Mega Chomp be worth using if it was to give another Trick Room option?

lol looks like you convinced yourself into trying the lawnmower

My issue is that I feel like I’m forced to bring Scrafty/Mimikyu/Ttar/Steelix because I just cannot make Talonflame and Garchomp work without a Tailwind mode. The team as is is designed to be hard trick room threatening more with sand. I think I’ve only won one match with those two, and that’s because I had to be bailed out by Rock Slide spam from Chomp and Ttar.

I have very little experience with Talonflame and, while I do have experience with Chomp in the past, Scarf Chomp on what otherwise is a hard trick room team feels out of place.

Yeah I just haven’t gotten an Altaria yet bc I only have a Swablu in Go and haven’t had the best luck pulling it in Recruit 😅

Prob from Pokemon Home, I’d be down

I’ll do so now. Sorry, passed out, had a long day

Thank you for all your help in the server

Added Rotom-Mow to the team and instantly have been bullying rain teams left and right. Even if they conserve Pelipper and lead with Sableye, Rotom-Mow STAB Leaf Storm will still thoroughly OHKO Mega Swampert through Light Screen and by leading it with Mimikyu it can still threaten Sableye reliably. Even survived Mega Swampert Ice Punch.

Gliscor is here simply because I do not have a Corviknight but I was talking with some other teambuilders on the r/PokemonChampions subreddit and suggested Rotom Mow as well, alongside having Coaching Scrafty over Detect.

Oh boy, that sounds sexy

Scrafty is basically my Incin replacement that won’t exasperate on my water weaknesses, and with Coaching I can empower Ttar or Steelix for massive damage, even occasionally Mimikyu for strong Play Rough and Shadow Sneak.

Thanks dude

No problem. I’m trying to get as much testing done as I need to, realized my team without Steelix is super weak to Primarina so I’m learning to conserve the Rotom Mow for last against it.

And since most of the team are physical attackers with the special ones weak to it or being resisted by it, Mega Scovillain is also a pain in the butt, but it’s not as common as Primarina

I was using Chople Berry to handle a Fighting attack but it hasn’t been coming up that frequently

Ahhh okay, makes sense

Understood

Ofc

Will do more testing but with Tyranitarite back on Ttar the idea is to be less reliant on Steelix as my mega, able to Mega Tyranitar and run Sylveon as my second TR abuser, which in theory should also make me less weak to opposing Incineroar.

Plus Chople Berry had such little use cases with the sudden absence of Sneasler and Low Kick never being guaranteed against Kingambit, which I would use Mega Steelix for anyway.

Who would be better against rain and beyond? Rotom-Mow or Sinistcha?

Against specifically rain, mow

In general, Sinistcha will be better

Because I’m realizing i don’t have consistent means to keep TR up, especially once Mimikyu’s disguise is down, and I only really bring Rotom to rain, potentially leaving gaps that Sinistcha would close