Debating Ethics: The Abortion Discussion at FriendZone
Summary
The FriendZone | Make Friends & Chat ⋅ Active Social Fun ⋅ Chill ⋅ VC server is hosting a deep-dive discussion regarding the ethics and biological definitions of abortion. This announcement outlines a logical argument concerning human rights and the status of an unborn child. It serves as a focal point for community members to engage in complex moral debates and exchange perspectives on sensitive social issues within a structured environment.
This is a simple logical inference:
An unborn child is a human being - scientifically proven precisely from the point of fertilisation
Abortion is killing of an unborn child
Therefore, Abortion is Murder.
We can have a conversation about whether the murder is justified or not, but this is just a fact.
And another simple logical inference that follows is you cannot believe in Human Rights and Believe that Abortion is right. It's a contradictory position, again;
Human rights implies rights that apply to every human being
An unborn child is a human being
Therefore, he/she has a right to life
And, Abortion takes away that right to life.
Yes, that's just basic scientific/biological fact. Google it
This response also applies to you
Firstly, we are all a bunch of cells with unique structure and we just have many more than the unborn children. And at that stage of development, that's exactly what's expected of a human being. It is developing human not an organism that is developing to be a human.
So the absurdity of your second question should be quite obvious by nowz but even if it's not, cells that come of my hand are certainly not human. They are not human offspring.
Yes they are. This is an easy google search. There is a scientific consensus on this
You are confusing human cells with a human organism here. Skin cells are cells belonging to a human organism. A zygote is its own separate, unique human organism (a human life). Nobody considers skin cells to be human life so it’s not exactly analogous here
Why would the woman go to jail or pay a fine for being SA’d? The criminal responsible for the crime should go to prison in that case… unless you mean what would happen if she got an abortion anyway… in which case the doctor who performed the abortion should face appropriate charges
You have made a lot of incorrect statements here already so I am not sure how well versed you are in the topic
?
What part went over my head lol
Or are you just saying that because you legitimately don’t have a response to anything I said
Even if it's murder you can do it in some scenarios.
Murder is literally defined as the unjustified killing of a human… so your statement is contradictory
If “you can do it in some scenarios”, you are implying it’s justified, which literally contradicts the definition of murder
Just go jail
The response from a person who is clearly unprepared for a convo he for some reason has strong opinions about
The unlawful killing of a legally recognized person; abortion is legally categorized as a medical procedure.
All I said was this but if you take this as an ad hominem then that’s on you… because you started this conversation with a question that is literally an easy google search and has been a scientific consensus for at the very least decades
I mean Im not sure exactly how long ago embryologists established that a zygote is scientifically classed as a distinct unique human organism but this has been basic science for a long time now and I feel like should be one of the first things you know when you enter this discussion
Science can tell us what something is biologically, but science cannot tell us what moral status or legal rights it should have. That is a question of philosophy, ethics, and law, not biology.
Yeah I didn’t grow up in the best conditions as a child either and neither did a lot of people that I know. You don’t deny someone’s right to life if you believe it will be a life of struggle
I’ve said this in other threads before but that’s like some Thanos-level marvel supervillain level thinking
“To reduce suffering, just kill them”
Yes I agree with this
Similar to what I think 🙌
Just because the science says it’s a life doesn’t mean pro choicers have to believe it is or moral value which is essentially the crux of the debate here… only reason I brought up the science is because he seemed initially confused as to whether it is even considered a human life at all a week or two into pregnancy… when it’s a human life from conception onwards
I think life is better than death and I don’t think it is up to us or the mother to decide whether the children get to live or die because they might lead a life of struggle
But I have an issue with this line of argumentation, so I want to ask you a question
Suppose the mother had consensual s## with her lawfully wedded husband and together they had the finances to love and care for their child… but the mother still wants an abortion. Would you say that should be permissible as well?
Just wondering
Are you going to answer my question or not ?
There’s an important reason Im asking this question
Money and marriage don't automatically equal mental or emotional readiness. Forcing someone through a full pregnancy and a lifetime of unwanted parenthood just creates resentment, severe distress, and a bad home environment for a child who deserves to be genuinely wanted.
Does it change your answer if it was with or without it?
Suppose they used cond##s then, sure
My answer won't change
Suppose this as well then. That they had no mental or emotional issues and were ready to care for the child, but they just didn’t want it
Is it okay still to have an abortion if they choose?
It makes zero sense to force a child into existence when the parents explicitly do not want it.
Right but do you think an abortion in this scenario should be legally permissible?
Should they still be able to abort it even if everything is good? Like assume everything is perfect
Like the criteria that I mentioned earlier, plus anything you can think of that I may have missed
Still, nobody should be forced to go through pregnancy and childbirth against their will.
Let's end this now.
Finances, mental/emotional/physical health, etc
Like if everything is good, should they still be allowed to have one if they wanted?
Wdym time
Suppose it’s just one parent working supporting both and can support a baby too
Like I said assume everything is perfect
Only reason I am asking this is because I want to understand what your criteria are for abortions to be permissible
Yes
