Discussion sur les équipes Soleil et idées de construction

Ok, j'ai remplacé Garganacl par Armarouge mais est-ce que Venasaur serait un meilleur choix ?

ouais si tu ne méga-évolues pas Meganium alors remplace-le par Venusaur ; Scovillain pourrait valoir le coup d'être remplacé aussi mais je n'ai pas de bonne idée sous la main, peut-être une forme de Rotom pour la couverture électrique ?

hmm, très bonnes idées... je trouve Meganium assez utile ngl

remplace Scovillian par Venasaur et Armarouge par Heliolisk pour une couverture électrique vraiment bonne sous le soleil, des avis ?

donc Torkoal, Charizard, Whimsicott, Venasaur, Heliolisk et Meganium

Mon équipe est :
- Venasaur
- Rotom wash
- Incin
- Charizard
- Farigiraf
- Torkoal
C'est censé être une équipe soleil, mais Venasaur est à peine utilisé car Torkoal a solar beam, que dois-je faire ?

Je pourrais prendre Garchomp pour la couverture ou Sneasler pour le support ? Ou je laisse tel quel ?

Tu utilises trick room sur Farigiraf ? Aussi, à quelle fréquence tu le sors en match ?

Je sors Farigiraf dans presque tous les matchs, c'est vraiment utile et j'utilise trick room 80% du temps

D'accord, ouais Venusaur a une anti-synergie malheureuse, mais il pourrait être gardé comme un mon hors-tr pour diversifier tes options

Je laisse généralement Venasaur et Zard de côté car Torkoal est étonnamment polyvalent

L'équipe soleil n'aime vraiment pas trick room cependant

Oui, Torkoal oui mais le reste aurait une vitesse moyenne

La question à se poser est : est-ce que trick room est justifié comme offensive principale si ça empêche mes sweepers de réussir pour un seul Mon ?

Je sais pas, mon offensive principale est généralement Torkoal donc

Maintenant tu as trouvé ton problème

Torkoal ne devrait vraiment pas être ton offensive principale sous le soleil

C'est mega Zard. Avec Venusaur chlorophyll comme sweeper de couverture

Hmm, ok

Que suggères-tu que je fasse alors ? :]

Torkoal est un switch bulky qui tape aussi fort, c'est pourquoi il est dans les équipes soleil. Ainsi qu'un poseur de soleil secondaire si tu entres dans la guerre météo

Je suggère que tu laisses tomber Farigiraf et que tu lead différemment

Si tu as besoin de support, prends Sinistcha

Qui serait mon poseur de soleil principal si Torkoal ne l'est pas ?

Ça aide aussi à couvrir ta faiblesse contre la pluie et le sable

Y Zard ?

Ah, oups lol

J'ai oublié Drought une seconde

C'est tout son boulot de poser le soleil et de sweeper dedans lol

Devrais-je investir défensivement dans Torkoal alors ?

Il n'a littéralement aucune autre utilité dans cette équipe lol

Yep ! Donne-lui je crois que c'est lava plume ? Comme attaque

Ou peut-être eruption

Celui qui est basé sur la santé

En ce moment c'est heat wave donc ok :p

Donc défense spéciale et défense ? Ou HP devrait être une priorité à la place ?

eruption

Voilà Torkoal en ce moment

252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

Bold

Ok :p

Débarrasse-toi de solar beam

Tu n'en as pas besoin

Une idée de remplacement ?

S'il est support, est-ce que helping hand fonctionnerait ?

Mets body press s'il l'apprend toujours

Ou helping hand fonctionnera aussi

Body press est toujours là :p

C'est un mur, pas un support

Est-ce que sa défense sera suffisante pour l'empêcher d'être tué avant de pouvoir faire quoi que ce soit ?

Je suppose que je devrais changer son charcoal pour autre chose alors ?

Parce que la répartition des objets est comme ça en ce moment

Donne-lui shuca berry

Ok

Et une idée pour les moves, l'objet et la répartition pour Sinistcha ? Jamais construit un

Il survivra à tout sauf à une bombe pendant au moins deux tours

Tours

Matcha gatcha, protect, life dew, rage powder, investis dans le bulk

C'est les deux défenses ou je maxe HP ?

Ici

Utilise mes moves, objet et setup

Merci beaucoup !! :]

Pour Sinistcha

Le mien est construit pour un sustain max. Je l'utilise pour garder Gengar en vie pendant trois tours

Ok !! :] Merci beaucoup !!

Une dernière question, Incin a actuellement cette baie, donc des suggestions d'objets pour lui ? (Rotom-Wash a leftovers)

Qui a quick claw

Personne

Donne-lui ça

Ça proc trop souvent, ce qui le fait bouger en premier

Ok, merci :p

Ouais

Ok, je vais tout obtenir pour Sinistcha et j'espère que ça marchera, merci beaucoup !! :p

Construis et joue avec ce setup et si pour une raison quelconque quelque chose est difficile à jouer, ping-moi et remplis-moi, nous trouverons un counter

Merci, je le ferai ! :p

Je ne lutte contre rien de spécifique mais je lutte aussi pour entrer dans le rang ultra ball, des suggestions ?

Je n’ai pas de difficulté face à un adversaire en particulier, mais j’ai du mal à atteindre Ultra Ball 1 et au-delà. Vous avez des suggestions ?

Qu'est-ce qui t'empêche de gagner

Honnêtement, j'ai laissé Rotom Wash et Venasaur de côté la plupart du temps car Incin est un si bon support, Zard est un super soleil et le pose, Torkoal est super si quelqu'un pose trick room + eruption et support soleil secondaire et Sinisitcha est juste sympa à avoir lol

Rock slide, les types roche en général, surtout un éventail de choses cependant

Saur couvre les faiblesses de y zards c'est pour ça qu'il est là lol koal est un choix de niche que tu apportes si tu vois un trick room dur.

Saur

Ouais, bon point lol

C'est tout son boulot arrêter l'eau arrêter la roche et le sol

Merci, je sais pas pourquoi je n'ai pas considéré ça ngl 😭

Chlorophyll saur est incroyablement rapide et tape comme un camion

Littéralement pour cette raison exacte 😂

Oups lol

Des critiques générales sur les builds de mes mons tho ? :]

Aussi, je ne méga-évolue pratiquement jamais Venasaur, devrais-je lui donner un objet différent ou penses-tu toujours que la pierre vaut le coup au cas où ?

Il n'a pas besoin de pierre tu peux lui donner focus sash

Ok :p

D'autres questions générales sur l'équipe/build ? :]

Un peu difficile de contrer les équipes soleil car mon rotom wash est one shot par solar beam à chaque fois que j'essaie

Je traite actuellement avec :
- Torkoal ne venant jamais à la bataille
- Venasaur étant presque inutile hors du soleil
- Rotom Wash étant one shot par solar beams et donc étant un mauvais counter pour d'autres équipes soleil assez souvent
- Sneasler.

Équipe Soleil Zard Y

J'allais mentionner hydreigon aussi, bien qu'il puisse ne pas s'intégrer super proprement dans ton équipe. C'est ce que j'ai utilisé pour aider contre zard et garchomp tho

Voici l'équipe si tu ne veux pas faire défiler vers le haut :p

Ouais ce n'est pas trop mal, je manquerais probablement cette couverture de type eau tho ngl mais je veux dire peut-être

Ouais, ce n'est peut-être pas le meilleur choix dans ton cas. C'est juste ce qui a bien fonctionné pour moi

Tout ce que je sais c'est que Wash continue de mourir donc j'ai besoin de quelque chose qui ne périt peut-être pas instantanément car chaque Zard utilise solar beam et obsolète

Je veux dire rotom heat n'est vraiment pas un mauvais choix encore. Ne pas avoir de couverture eau est ennuyeux, mais tbh il n'y a pas grand-chose autour rn qui a besoin d'eau spécifiquement.

Je suppose qu'il n'a littéralement rien en Défense Spéciale tbf 😭

Ouais je ferais quelques calcs avec un investissement en défense spéciale d'abord 😭

Je veux dire, ok, donc mes options sont Hydreigon, Rotom Heat, H Goodra ou juste essayer de garder Wash avec un investissement en défense spéciale

Ok, cool :p

Je vais essayer ça :]

Je pense que H goodra est un mon assez sous-estimé dans cette méta, je pourrais lui donner une chance à un moment donné aussi. Tu auras juste à les jouer et voir comment les options se sentent dans ton équipe !

Ouais, fair enough ! :p

Une idée sur comment contrer Sneasler btw ? Fléau de mon existence à part les autres Zard Ys

Vis cette chose de chat

Il est ennuyeux af. La couverture volante est généralement la plus facile à trouver ? Mais il est pénible à gérer de manière cohérente 😭

Est-ce que ton vena a earth power ?

Mhm

En regardant H Goodra btw, ça a l'air tentant parce qu'il est au-delà de bulky, il est bulky dans une mesure presque ridicule

damn

Mais j'investirai dans la SD de Rotom d'abord et ensuite je verrai si ça me cause toujours des problèmes

Ouais c'est ce que je pense. Sa défense spéciale est si élevée que tu peux te permettre de spec dans la défense pour tanker les tremblements de terre. Les vagues de chaleur ne seraient presque pas un problème

Ouais...

Je le considérerai certainement si je reste dans un état de limbo (ce que je suis actuellement, je ne peux pas échapper au bas du rang Ultra)

La seule chose est que sap sipper ne redirige pas solar beam, il le mange juste. Utile si tu appelles un changement, mais pas tellement s'il est déjà sur le terrain

Je me bats pour sortir du rang ultra ball moyen lol, je dois travailler sur l'obtention de mes trick rooms plus régulièrement c'est la plupart de mon problème

Mais je veux dire, un pokémon capable de manger des mouvements à gros impact tout en utilisant ses propres mouvements de type eau et d'autres types pour contrer Zard Y et Incin sonne bien

Oh ouais c'est def toujours sympa, juste ne protégera pas ton partenaire de recevoir le laser vert c'est tout

Btw, mon Venasaur connaît actuellement Weather Ball, Synthesis, Solar Beam et Earth Power mais sans soleil se sent un peu lackluster, des suggestions pour spécifiquement un autre mouvement de type plante que je peux ajouter pour remplacer Weather Ball ?

Energy ball est un peu le seul autre

Giga drain aussi si tu veux un peu de récupération, mais ce n'est pas la chose qui tape le plus fort là-bas.

Hmmm okokok

Je vais essayer et voir à quel point Rotom W est bon maintenant avec quelques stats investies dans SD, mais sinon nous sommes H Goodra-maxing

Ou au moins H Goodra testing lmao

I might start H goodra maxing on my team too lowkey lol, it'll slot in nice in trick room if I decide to pivot to a hard TR team

Ngl I've found my Torkoal a little weak tho, it's a secondary sun setter I never feel the need to bring because Zard always does it when mega evolving

Honestly wondering if it's worth having both R Wash and Goodra and removing Torkoal...

But I dunno

Yea torkoal honestly isnt super great here outside of trick room

tbh if you need another sun setter go prankster whimsicott with sunny day

Bro never comes to any of the battles because I don't use Trick Room and apart from in Trick Room he's painfully sloe

Plus you can tailwind and encore which is helpful. I just got my ass kicked earlier by a sunny day whimsicott and venasaur lol, they didnt even need zard

Lmao what did they use?

As in, the Whimsicott?

I want ideas...

(if you want to be really funny you can use worry seed. It gets prankstered and you can remove other charizard or venasaurs abilities lol)

Especially because I already have a Whimsicott I just removed them cuz I wanted Sinistcha instead

They had a pretty standard set. Sunny day, tailwind, moonblast and I cant remember the 4th move

Hm okkk

But bro got a sunny day and tailwind off with venasaur next to it, it was over for me lol

Venasaur is already so so so fast in sun tho so Tailwind almost feels odd

I also had a whimsi so they were counter-tailwinding me

Ohhhh ok

I run a soft trick room team with a tailwind mode, I brought the tailwind mode into that fight. Big mistake.

Torkoal definitely has to go, just thinking if I want to just add His Goodra or Whimsicott

I mean, technically if I eliminate (remove) both Rotom and Torkoal I could have both

Yea id get rid of torkoal first

I think for now I'll remove Torkoal for Whimsicott and just see how Rotom fairs in the coming matches

Yea, I like to make 1 change at a time and see how it works

If I make too many at once it can be tough to gague what the changes I made are actually doing lol.

I used to run a sun trick room Torkoal Farigiraf that got me a 7 win streak but I removed Farigiraf because although the trick room bit was slightly cracked once Torkoal died it was over and nobody else could fair well in trick room

So even tho it was a really effective strategy the price I had to pay for it on the other members was too big

Im running mega crab, farigaraf, and primarina as my TR side

My hydreigon has middling speed so it fits in both TR and tailwind, hes either a cleanup sweeper in TR or a lead in tailwind

Yeah, sounds really good!!

The crab goes bonkers if TR is up, my struggle has been getting up consistently tho. It can be tough to keep farigaraf alive long enough to get it off if I make a bad prediction, so im debating slotting in another trick room setter possibly, But thats a later issue

Any idea of an item for Whimsicott btw?

OOO I've just had a brainwave

I can give my rotom wash an berry that lowers the effectiveness of grass type moves on first hit

And then I can move my washs leftovers to Venasaur and then the focus sash to Whimsicott

I think that sounds solid enough

focus sach

always sach

That could work. You could also give venasaur a berry

One of the ones that reduces a super effective attack. Maybe either ground or fire depending on what you get hit with more

Im assuming incin has the sitrus berry?

Incin has Sitrus

Figured

hmnmmm you could also maybe give venasaur the overgrown root if you want is solar beam to hit like an even bigger truck. Plus itll up giga drains damage if you go that route

Wait so I take it leftovers Venasaur isn't a good idea?

You could also give whimsicott mental herb to stop taunt, tho thats a lot more niche than focus sash

Are you running him as a bulky sweeper or a fast one?

Fast

Where do I get the overgrown root?

Then I wouldn't personally. If you dont really plan for venasaur to be tanking a bunch of hits then leftovers won't do much

The only thing that I see in the shop that boosts grass type moves is miracle seed

I think its in the shop?

Thats it

I mixed up the name with something else lol

Fair enough :p

I'll give Rotom back the leftovers if they aren't be used then?

Yea

he likes them

Now is the moment of truth to see how the team is now doing :p

Mainly testing Whimsicott since I've not come up against a Zard Y

Or a Zard at all

It be like that someties

thankfully whimsi is good as an alternate sun setter or just a useful lead

What moves are you running?

Memento, Sunny Day, Moonblast and Tailwind

Ahhh damn I'm up against a trick room team

Damn

You could maybe swap memento with taunt or encore to help with trick room unless its farigaraf

My Venasaur just got murdered by a psychic gorilla lmao

Yea, good idea :]

I personally like encore but both are equally valid so just depends what you want. Both are equally useless against giraffe

True

I should really recognise a trick room team by Orangoru and plan accordingly lmao

Yea hes kinda a tell tale sign

Dang Draco Meteors are scary

But if I used Goodra I could dish out my own...

I don't want to write off Rotom until I have more experience with him with his newly invested special bulk

But yk

Can't say it isn't tempting to just toss him aside 😭

I'd just need to see how well Goodra H can take heat waves though

Oof this is kinda rough for Rotom

Half health due to one sun boosted energy ball

It is super effective tbf...

I think my heart is set on H Goodra

It's insanely bulky, learns curse, can counter solar beam because it cannot be hit by it, can take heat waves, can use rock slide

Yea rotom is like middling bulky. Hes useful, but power creep is starting to catch up to his bulk

Plus not having assult vest really hurts him, he kinda needed that

It's officially settled, Goodra is the goat

Just used him, I set up one shelter so +2 defence and he ate an earthquake and only lost 15 hp...

And then he can hit back with a body press and decimate

Have you tried garchomp

Nein, kinda lacking room in the team tbh but Goodra is doing quite well

Kinda conflicted though because Sneasler learns rock slide which could shut down Zards

Let me know if there's anything you'd change

Obviously open to any advice, especially if you don't think a mon works for whatever reason

Starting to think I'm missing a Sneasler that can use rock slide to deal with other sun teams though, might replace Goodra :d

But yea, lmk what you think about that since Sneasler could shut down sun teams and I wanna have smthn to do that but Rotom Wash didn't cut it

Swords dance rock slide dire claw protect/fake out or something could work

But requires a setup before using

Could drop swords dance

But it'll take more than one shot

I dunno, I've seen Zard's (at least my one) get one shot by no set up rock slide

But that build 100% works yea

Maybe I'm wrong I haven't done the calcz

I just know it isn't stab

So I would assume one isn't enough

Zard is pretty frail tbf

Alright, I'll do that tomorrow then

I dunno why I didn't think of that ngl, I'm struggling against Sneasler so ofc Sneasler is great against opposing sun teamd

I mean I use t-tar to one shot mine

One shot Zard?

But I haven't had time to build outside of a single team

Yep

I mean I could and that's definitely an option but Sneasler is too strong for me to deny atp, I always lose to them 😭

Yeah I'm just saying that to show I haven't done any testing with anyone else

I run perish trap lmao

I've only run into Perish Trap once so far and Darkest Lariat saved me before it got too serious lol

But without Incin I would've been screwed, pure luck on my end

The fact you hit Gengar at all means they didn't play right lol

How were they meant to stop me? Just curious

Sinistcha next to him with rage powder

To alternate protect and substitute

That would've been really smart, unfortunately they had Sneasler instead

I think that's the only time I've ever beat a Sneasler

Yeah I'm in masterball with that team currently

I respect the art of perish trap, but also I want to fling every gengar I see into the sun

But yea rock slide sneasler should OHKO zard. Its quad weak and has low defense, I think rock throw could kill that thing lol

Just kill the shadow tag user and perish falls apart lmao

M. Golurk Denies perish trap

I love M golurk

Can't protect completely

So you take damage. Kills sinistcha in one hit sometimes

So you can't heal

Substitute stall doesn't work either

And he can swap out lmao

I wanna run more Golurk but theres so many dark ice and grass to keep him alive a lot of the time

Poor Goodra saw like two games but turns out it struggles to dish out high damage via rock slide which makes it a little redundant sometimes

And I guess my teams not all about being bulky anyway, Sneasler fits my hit hard and fast or go home policy lmao

Hisuian

Makes sense, it was a good experiment though!

Still might have some potential on rain teams but it’s physical attack ig just isn’t quite enough to do what it needs

Plus setting up against sun teams is near impossible because they're all running Encore Whimsicott so if I try use any sort of set up move I'll be Encored into oblivion lol

Turns out Whimsicott + Venasaur is deadly combo that allows for absolute, total weather dominance

When they just bring one rain setter, there is no weather war, just a weather attempt lol

Any ideas on how to improve this team a little bit? Don't really ever bring Sinistcha, so I'm mainly looking for suggestions regarding them

Garchomp

Remove quick claw from incin

I personally prefer mental herb on my tailwind setter but sash is usable as well depending on the preference

But If it was me I would run mental herb whimsicott sash sneasler either chople, shuca, or sitrus berry incin

Then choice band garchomp

Hmmm, I'm kinda thinking about an anti trick room mon tbh, any ideas?

Also choice band isn't in the game

Mainly since Farigiraf trick room teams keep knocking me down ultra ball tier

I dunno if Garchomp would work for that but lmk any ideas since trick room is 9/10 the main issue I'm facing

Perhaps a good taunt user?

I would go for Taunt Whimsicott but Farigiraf cares not for prankster

Incin learns it, if you can think of a good move to move out of Incin I could slide it in there and use him as an anti trick room measure and then add Garchomp (Incin has fake out, darkest lariat, a move I forgot the name of that attacks both opponents and lowers special attack and parting shot)

I meant scarf

Fair enough, do you have any ideas for what I said above though regarding Incin as an anti trick room measure? :]

Like what move to remove?

(Also I'd appreciate an idea for Gachomp's general build since Garchomp does seem like a good idea)

Incin shouldn't have a spread move

Change that one

Wrong ss

Use that

Thank you :p

Asking for any advice, stuck at the very top of Ultra ball but cannot enter master ball no matter how hard I try

Which is a tad bit annoying because I genuinely just want this team to get into master ball and then I'm done I'm going back to playing cozy Pokopia 😭

Pretty standard sun what are you having problems facing?

Sometimes sandstorm stuff, sometimes rain teams, sometimes trick room if they can fake out incin

Tbh I really don't know what I'm doing wrong, that's what makes this so frustrating

Still not made it to Master Ball...

Hey I would say drop whim on this team

Venu sun usually doesn't include it

Because you already want sash on venu

Venu should be protect sleep powder leaf storm sludge bomb imo

I'm curious as to what I'd replace Whim with? I find it really useful so I'm wondering why I wouldn't want it

Also, if sun is up 99% of the time, why would I drop Solar Beam for a move with 10 more BP but a way worse drawback?

You want that extra power in quite a few mu plus rain and sand might be a problem for you

I mean, maybe I'll drop Whimsicott for Basculegion

I've seen strong teams have that fire water grass core

Plus I've seen some really strong sun teams run Basc

I wouldn't mind any opinions tho, I'll probably put sludge bomb on Vena but I don't really wanna sacrifice solar beam tbh

Idk you can keep it but in ten weather war meta I really really don't wanna get locked into beam

Plus leaf storm helps with some calcs

And you absolutely need protect to double tect Vs most fake out leads

And put sash on it so you can live one

Also weather ball is more common over air slash I think

Idk what basc you would run here

Because you already had a scarfer

Yea but it's kinda a one hit thing and then I have -2 special attack

Current team if anyone has more suggestions, pretty content with my mon choice but if anyone comes up with anything absolutely genius I'll defo consider it :3

I'm glad you think so, currently struggling to get out of tier 1 of Ultra Ball but that might just perhaps be me ngl 😭

But I'm hoping maybe there's something I can do to push me up into master ball 😭😭

ev spreads is on the 2nd image, no?

like their stats

they're like hyper-specific, idk what else to do with them ngl

maybe i just have horrific luck or smthn idk, i can never get a win streak that's strong enough to push me into master ball

What have you been using haban chomp for

to counter opposing chomps and sun teams, it can easily tank a dragon claw and fire off rock slides that decimate zards

basically another chomp really struggles to stop me

would go scarf but basc doesn't allow it

and bascs speed is a real benefit so i don't want to rob it of that

basc has been a real asset, wave crash is a nuke for ttars and garchomps and even excadrills

i did trial scovillian very early in the teams lifespan but i couldn't get it to work, very curious as to how wolfe got to 1 with it ngl

but it looks more of a trick room optimal mon so nahhh

Also kinda curious if E Floette would work on my team? It's such a power house so if I'm really stuck, I dunno if it's an obvious boost or not

I'm starting to think my problem is that my team is too generic, everyone's seen something like it, I'm wondering if there's any way to spice it up?

Genuinely might give up man, keep falling down tiers 😭