Sun Team Discussion and Build Ideas
Summary
The Pokémon Champions | VGC Battles & Tournaments community discusses optimizing a Charizard Y sun team. This thread explores the synergy between Chlorophyll sweepers like Venusaur and the role of Torkoal in competitive play. Members analyze the effectiveness of Trick Room versus hyper-offense strategies, providing valuable insights for trainers looking to refine their competitive team compositions.
trying to make a sun team, suggestions pls?
Ok, I've replaced Garganacl with Armarouge but would Venasaur be a stronger pick?
yeah if you aren't megaing meganium then drop it for venusaur; scovillain might be worth replacing too but i don't have a good off the dome pick for what, maybe a rotom form for electric coverage?
hmm, all very good ideas... i'm finding meganium quite useful ngl
replace scovillian with venasaur and armarouge with heliolisk for electric coverage that's really good in the sun, thoughts?
so torkoal, charizard, whimsicott, venasaur, heliolisk and meganium
My team is:
- Venasaur
- Rotom wash
- Incin
- Charizard
- Farigiraf
- Torkoal
It's meant to be a sun team, but Venasaur is hardly used since Torkoal has solar beam, what should I do?
I could go Garchomp for coverage or Sneasler for support? Or do I just leave it as is?
Are you using trick room on farigiraf? Also, how often do you bring it to games?
I bring Farigiraf to pretty much every game, it's really useful and I use trick room 80% of the time
Alright then, yeah venusaur does have unfortunate anti-synergy, but it could be kept as an out-of-tr mon to diversify your options
I usually leave Venasaur and Zard back because Torkoal is shocking versatile
Sun team really doesn't like trick room however
Yes, torkoal does but the rest would be middling speed
The question to ask is, is trick room justified as a main offense if it denies my sweepers to set up one Mon for success
I dunno, my main offence is usually Torkoal so
Now you have found your issue
Torkoal should very much not be your main offense in sun
That is mega zard. With chlorophyll venesaur as his coverage sweeper
Hmm, ok
What do you suggest I do then? :]
Torkoal is a bulky switch that happens to also hit hard which is why he's on sun teams. As well as a secondary sun setter if you get into the weather war
I suggest you drop farigiraf and lead differently into sub
If you are needing support bring sinistcha
Who'd be my main sun setter if Torkoal isn't?
It also helps cover your rain and sand weakness
Y zard?
Ah, woopsie lol
Forgot about Drought for a sec
It's his entire job to set sun and sweep in it lol
Should I invest defensively into Torkoal then?
He has literally no other use on this team lol
Yep! Give him I believe it's lava plume? As an attack
Or maybe eruption
Whichever one it is that's based off of health
Rn it's been heat wave so alright :p
So special defence and defence? Or should HP be a priority instead?
eruption
This is Torkoal rn
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold
Alright :p
Get rid of solar beam
You don't need it
Any idea of a replacement?
If he's support, would helping hand work?
Put in body press if he still gets it
Or helping hand will work as well
Body press is still there :p
He is a wall not support
Will his defence be enough to stop him being killed before he can do anything tho?
I take it I should switch out his charcoal for smthn then?
Because this is the item spread rn
Give him shuca berry
Alright
And any idea when it comes to moves, item and spread for Sinistcha? Never built one before
He will survive anything but a nuke for at least two thens
Turns
Matcha gatcha protect life dew rage powder invest in bulk
Is that both defences or do I max out HP?
Here
Use my moves item and setup
Tysm!! :]
For sinistcha
Mines is built for max sustain. I use it to keep Gengar alive for three turns
Alright!! :] Tysm!!
One last question, Incin currently has that berry so any item suggestions for him? (Rotom-Wash has leftovers)
Who has quick claw
Nobody
Give him that
Alright, ty :p
It procs way too often currently making him move first
Yea
Alright, I'll get all the Sinistcha and hope this works out, tysm!! :p
Build and play around with that setup and I'd die some reason something is hard to play into ping me and fill me in we will work our a counter
Thank you, will do! :p
Not struggling against anything specific but also struggling to enter ultra ball tier, any suggestions anyone?
Not struggling against anything in specific but struggling to enter great ball 1 and beyond, any suggestions anyone?
What is stopping you from winning
Honestly been leaving Rotom Wash and Venasaur behind most of the time since Incin is such good support, Zard is great sun and sets it up, Torkoal is great if anyone sets up trick room + euuption and secondary sun support and Sinisitcha is just nice to have lol
Rock slide, rock types in general, mostly an array of things though
Saur covers y zards weaknesses thats why he's there lol koal is a niche pick you bring if you see hard trick room.
Saur
Yeah, good point lol
That's his whole job stop water stop rock and ground
Thanks, I dunno why I didn't consider that ngl 😭
Chlorophyll saur is blistering fast and hits like a truck
Literally for that exact reason 😂
Woopsie lol
Any general critiques of the builds of my mons tho? :]
Also, I pretty much never mega evolve Venasaur, should I give him a different item or do you still think the stone is worth it just in case?
He doesn't need stone you can give him focus sash
Alright :p
Any other general team/build queries? :]
Kinda difficult to counter sun teams as my rotom wash is being one shot by solar beam every time I try
I'm currently dealing with:
- Torkoal never coming to the battle
- Venasaur being near useless out of sun
- Rotom Wash being one shot by solar beams and therefore being a poor counter to other sun teams quite often
- Sneasler.
Zard Y Sun Team
I was gonna mention hydreigon as well, though it may not fit super cleanly into your team. Thats what I've been using to help against zard and garchomp tho
Here's the team if you don't wanna scroll up :p
Yea that isn't too bad, I'd still probably miss that water type coverage tho ngl but I mean maybeeee
Yea, it may not be the best choice in your case. Thats just what has worked well for me
All I know is that Wash keeps dying so I need something that maybe doesn't instantly perish because every Zard runs solar beam and outdated
I mean rotom heat really isn't a bad choice still. Not having water coverage is annoying, but tbh theres not much around rn that needs water specifically.
I guess it does have literally nothing in Special Defence tbf 😭
Yea I would run some calcs with special defense investment first😭
I mean, ok, so my options are Hydreigon, Rotom Heat, H Goodra or just try and keep Wash with some special defence investment
Ok, cool :p
I'll try that :]
I do think H goodra is a pretty slept on mon in this meta, I might give it a shot at some point as well. You'll just to run them and see how the options feel on your team!
Yea, fair enough! :p
Any idea on how to counter Sneasler btw? Bane of my existence apart from other Zard Ys
Screw that cat thing
Hes annoying af. Flying coverage is usually the easiest to find? But hes a pain to handle consistently😭
Does your vena have earth power?
Mhm
Looking at H Goodra btw, looks tempting because it's beyond bulky, it's bulky to an almost ridiculous extent
damn
But I'll invest in Rotom's SD first and then see if it's still causing me issues
Yea thats what I'm thinking. Its special defense is so high you can afford to spec into defense to tank earthquakes. Heat waves would be almost no issue
Yeah...
I'll definitely consider it if I remain in a state of limbo (which I currently am, can't escape bottom of Ultra rank)
Only thing is sap sipper doesnt re-direct solar beam, just eats it. Useful if you call a switch, but not so much if its already on field
Im figting my way out of mid ultra ball rank lol, I gotta work on getting my trick rooms up more consistently is most my problem
But I mean, a pokèmon capable of eating big hitting moves while using it's own water type and other type moves to counter Zard Y and Incin is nice sounding
Oh yea its def still nice, just wont protect your partner from getting the green laser is all
Btw, my Venasaur currently knows Weather Ball, Synthesis, Solar Beam and Earth Power but without sun feels a little lackluster, any suggestions for specifically another grass type move I can add to replace Weather Ball?
Energy ball is kinda the only other one
Giga drain too if you want some recovery, but it isnt the hardest hitting thing out there.
Hmmm okokok
I'll try and see how good Rotom W is now with some stats invested into SD, but if not we're H Goodra-maxing
Or at least H Goodra testing lmao
I might start H goodra maxing on my team too lowkey lol, it'll slot in nice in trick room if I decide to pivot to a hard TR team
Ngl I've found my Torkoal a little weak tho, it's a secondary sun setter I never feel the need to bring because Zard always does it when mega evolving
Honestly wondering if it's worth having both R Wash and Goodra and removing Torkoal...
But I dunno
Yea torkoal honestly isnt super great here outside of trick room
tbh if you need another sun setter go prankster whimsicott with sunny day
Bro never comes to any of the battles because I don't use Trick Room and apart from in Trick Room he's painfully sloe
Plus you can tailwind and encore which is helpful. I just got my ass kicked earlier by a sunny day whimsicott and venasaur lol, they didnt even need zard
Lmao what did they use?
As in, the Whimsicott?
I want ideas...
(if you want to be really funny you can use worry seed. It gets prankstered and you can remove other charizard or venasaurs abilities lol)
Especially because I already have a Whimsicott I just removed them cuz I wanted Sinistcha instead
They had a pretty standard set. Sunny day, tailwind, moonblast and I cant remember the 4th move
Hm okkk
But bro got a sunny day and tailwind off with venasaur next to it, it was over for me lol
Venasaur is already so so so fast in sun tho so Tailwind almost feels odd
I also had a whimsi so they were counter-tailwinding me
Ohhhh ok
I run a soft trick room team with a tailwind mode, I brought the tailwind mode into that fight. Big mistake.
Torkoal definitely has to go, just thinking if I want to just add His Goodra or Whimsicott
I mean, technically if I eliminate (remove) both Rotom and Torkoal I could have both
Yea id get rid of torkoal first
I think for now I'll remove Torkoal for Whimsicott and just see how Rotom fairs in the coming matches
Yea, I like to make 1 change at a time and see how it works
If I make too many at once it can be tough to gague what the changes I made are actually doing lol.
I used to run a sun trick room Torkoal Farigiraf that got me a 7 win streak but I removed Farigiraf because although the trick room bit was slightly cracked once Torkoal died it was over and nobody else could fair well in trick room
So even tho it was a really effective strategy the price I had to pay for it on the other members was too big
Im running mega crab, farigaraf, and primarina as my TR side
My hydreigon has middling speed so it fits in both TR and tailwind, hes either a cleanup sweeper in TR or a lead in tailwind
Yeah, sounds really good!!
The crab goes bonkers if TR is up, my struggle has been getting up consistently tho. It can be tough to keep farigaraf alive long enough to get it off if I make a bad prediction, so im debating slotting in another trick room setter possibly, But thats a later issue
Any idea of an item for Whimsicott btw?
OOO I've just had a brainwave
I can give my rotom wash an berry that lowers the effectiveness of grass type moves on first hit
And then I can move my washs leftovers to Venasaur and then the focus sash to Whimsicott
I think that sounds solid enough
focus sach
always sach
That could work. You could also give venasaur a berry
One of the ones that reduces a super effective attack. Maybe either ground or fire depending on what you get hit with more
Im assuming incin has the sitrus berry?
Incin has Sitrus
Figured
hmnmmm you could also maybe give venasaur the overgrown root if you want is solar beam to hit like an even bigger truck. Plus itll up giga drains damage if you go that route
Wait so I take it leftovers Venasaur isn't a good idea?
You could also give whimsicott mental herb to stop taunt, tho thats a lot more niche than focus sash
Are you running him as a bulky sweeper or a fast one?
Fast
Where do I get the overgrown root?
Then I wouldn't personally. If you dont really plan for venasaur to be tanking a bunch of hits then leftovers won't do much
The only thing that I see in the shop that boosts grass type moves is miracle seed
I think its in the shop?
Thats it
I mixed up the name with something else lol
Fair enough :p
I'll give Rotom back the leftovers if they aren't be used then?
Yea
he likes them
Now is the moment of truth to see how the team is now doing :p
Mainly testing Whimsicott since I've not come up against a Zard Y
Or a Zard at all
It be like that someties
thankfully whimsi is good as an alternate sun setter or just a useful lead
What moves are you running?
Memento, Sunny Day, Moonblast and Tailwind
Ahhh damn I'm up against a trick room team
Damn
You could maybe swap memento with taunt or encore to help with trick room unless its farigaraf
My Venasaur just got murdered by a psychic gorilla lmao
Yea, good idea :]
I personally like encore but both are equally valid so just depends what you want. Both are equally useless against giraffe
True
I should really recognise a trick room team by Orangoru and plan accordingly lmao
Yea hes kinda a tell tale sign
Dang Draco Meteors are scary
But if I used Goodra I could dish out my own...
I don't want to write off Rotom until I have more experience with him with his newly invested special bulk
But yk
Can't say it isn't tempting to just toss him aside 😭
I'd just need to see how well Goodra H can take heat waves though
Oof this is kinda rough for Rotom
Half health due to one sun boosted energy ball
It is super effective tbf...
I think my heart is set on H Goodra
It's insanely bulky, learns curse, can counter solar beam because it cannot be hit by it, can take heat waves, can use rock slide
Yea rotom is like middling bulky. Hes useful, but power creep is starting to catch up to his bulk
Plus not having assult vest really hurts him, he kinda needed that
It's officially settled, Goodra is the goat
Just used him, I set up one shelter so +2 defence and he ate an earthquake and only lost 15 hp...
And then he can hit back with a body press and decimate
Have you tried garchomp
Nein, kinda lacking room in the team tbh but Goodra is doing quite well
Kinda conflicted though because Sneasler learns rock slide which could shut down Zards
Let me know if there's anything you'd change
Obviously open to any advice, especially if you don't think a mon works for whatever reason
Starting to think I'm missing a Sneasler that can use rock slide to deal with other sun teams though, might replace Goodra :d
But yea, lmk what you think about that since Sneasler could shut down sun teams and I wanna have smthn to do that but Rotom Wash didn't cut it
Swords dance rock slide dire claw protect/fake out or something could work
But requires a setup before using
Could drop swords dance
But it'll take more than one shot
I dunno, I've seen Zard's (at least my one) get one shot by no set up rock slide
But that build 100% works yea
Maybe I'm wrong I haven't done the calcz
I just know it isn't stab
So I would assume one isn't enough
Zard is pretty frail tbf
Alright, I'll do that tomorrow then
I dunno why I didn't think of that ngl, I'm struggling against Sneasler so ofc Sneasler is great against opposing sun teamd
I mean I use t-tar to one shot mine
One shot Zard?
But I haven't had time to build outside of a single team
Yep
I mean I could and that's definitely an option but Sneasler is too strong for me to deny atp, I always lose to them 😭
Yeah I'm just saying that to show I haven't done any testing with anyone else
I run perish trap lmao
I've only run into Perish Trap once so far and Darkest Lariat saved me before it got too serious lol
But without Incin I would've been screwed, pure luck on my end
The fact you hit Gengar at all means they didn't play right lol
How were they meant to stop me? Just curious
Sinistcha next to him with rage powder
To alternate protect and substitute
That would've been really smart, unfortunately they had Sneasler instead
I think that's the only time I've ever beat a Sneasler
Yeah I'm in masterball with that team currently
I respect the art of perish trap, but also I want to fling every gengar I see into the sun
But yea rock slide sneasler should OHKO zard. Its quad weak and has low defense, I think rock throw could kill that thing lol
Just kill the shadow tag user and perish falls apart lmao
M. Golurk Denies perish trap
I love M golurk
Can't protect completely
So you take damage. Kills sinistcha in one hit sometimes
So you can't heal
Substitute stall doesn't work either
And he can swap out lmao
I wanna run more Golurk but theres so many dark ice and grass to keep him alive a lot of the time
Poor Goodra saw like two games but turns out it struggles to dish out high damage via rock slide which makes it a little redundant sometimes
And I guess my teams not all about being bulky anyway, Sneasler fits my hit hard and fast or go home policy lmao
Hisuian
Makes sense, it was a good experiment though!
Still might have some potential on rain teams but it’s physical attack ig just isn’t quite enough to do what it needs
Plus setting up against sun teams is near impossible because they're all running Encore Whimsicott so if I try use any sort of set up move I'll be Encored into oblivion lol
Turns out Whimsicott + Venasaur is deadly combo that allows for absolute, total weather dominance
When they just bring one rain setter, there is no weather war, just a weather attempt lol
Any ideas on how to improve this team a little bit? Don't really ever bring Sinistcha, so I'm mainly looking for suggestions regarding them
Garchomp
Remove quick claw from incin
I personally prefer mental herb on my tailwind setter but sash is usable as well depending on the preference
But If it was me I would run mental herb whimsicott sash sneasler either chople, shuca, or sitrus berry incin
Then choice band garchomp
Hmmm, I'm kinda thinking about an anti trick room mon tbh, any ideas?
Also choice band isn't in the game
Mainly since Farigiraf trick room teams keep knocking me down ultra ball tier
I dunno if Garchomp would work for that but lmk any ideas since trick room is 9/10 the main issue I'm facing
Perhaps a good taunt user?
I would go for Taunt Whimsicott but Farigiraf cares not for prankster
Incin learns it, if you can think of a good move to move out of Incin I could slide it in there and use him as an anti trick room measure and then add Garchomp (Incin has fake out, darkest lariat, a move I forgot the name of that attacks both opponents and lowers special attack and parting shot)
I meant scarf
Fair enough, do you have any ideas for what I said above though regarding Incin as an anti trick room measure? :]
Like what move to remove?
(Also I'd appreciate an idea for Gachomp's general build since Garchomp does seem like a good idea)
Incin shouldn't have a spread move
Change that one
Wrong ss
Use that
Thank you :p
Asking for any advice, stuck at the very top of Ultra ball but cannot enter master ball no matter how hard I try
Which is a tad bit annoying because I genuinely just want this team to get into master ball and then I'm done I'm going back to playing cozy Pokopia 😭
Pretty standard sun what are you having problems facing?
Sometimes sandstorm stuff, sometimes rain teams, sometimes trick room if they can fake out incin
Tbh I really don't know what I'm doing wrong, that's what makes this so frustrating
Still not made it to Master Ball...
Hey I would say drop whim on this team
Venu sun usually doesn't include it
Because you already want sash on venu
Venu should be protect sleep powder leaf storm sludge bomb imo
I'm curious as to what I'd replace Whim with? I find it really useful so I'm wondering why I wouldn't want it
Also, if sun is up 99% of the time, why would I drop Solar Beam for a move with 10 more BP but a way worse drawback?
You want that extra power in quite a few mu plus rain and sand might be a problem for you
I mean, maybe I'll drop Whimsicott for Basculegion
I've seen strong teams have that fire water grass core
Plus I've seen some really strong sun teams run Basc
I wouldn't mind any opinions tho, I'll probably put sludge bomb on Vena but I don't really wanna sacrifice solar beam tbh
Idk you can keep it but in ten weather war meta I really really don't wanna get locked into beam
Plus leaf storm helps with some calcs
And you absolutely need protect to double tect Vs most fake out leads
And put sash on it so you can live one
Also weather ball is more common over air slash I think
Idk what basc you would run here
Because you already had a scarfer
Yea but it's kinda a one hit thing and then I have -2 special attack
Current team if anyone has more suggestions, pretty content with my mon choice but if anyone comes up with anything absolutely genius I'll defo consider it :3
I'm glad you think so, currently struggling to get out of tier 1 of Ultra Ball but that might just perhaps be me ngl 😭
But I'm hoping maybe there's something I can do to push me up into master ball 😭😭
ev spreads is on the 2nd image, no?
like their stats
they're like hyper-specific, idk what else to do with them ngl
maybe i just have horrific luck or smthn idk, i can never get a win streak that's strong enough to push me into master ball
What have you been using haban chomp for
to counter opposing chomps and sun teams, it can easily tank a dragon claw and fire off rock slides that decimate zards
basically another chomp really struggles to stop me
would go scarf but basc doesn't allow it
and bascs speed is a real benefit so i don't want to rob it of that
basc has been a real asset, wave crash is a nuke for ttars and garchomps and even excadrills
i did trial scovillian very early in the teams lifespan but i couldn't get it to work, very curious as to how wolfe got to 1 with it ngl
but it looks more of a trick room optimal mon so nahhh
Also kinda curious if E Floette would work on my team? It's such a power house so if I'm really stuck, I dunno if it's an obvious boost or not
I'm starting to think my problem is that my team is too generic, everyone's seen something like it, I'm wondering if there's any way to spice it up?
Genuinely might give up man, keep falling down tiers 😭
