Discussão sobre equipas de sol e ideias de construção

Ok, substituí Garganacl por Armarouge, mas Venasaur seria uma escolha mais forte?

sim, se você não vai megaevoluir Meganium, troque-o por Venusaur; talvez valha a pena substituir Scovillain também, mas não tenho uma boa ideia agora, talvez uma forma de Rotom para cobertura elétrica?

hmm, ideias muito boas... na verdade, estou achando Meganium bem útil

substitua Scovillian por Venasaur e Armarouge por Heliolisk para cobertura elétrica, que é muito boa no sol, o que acham?

então Torkoal, Charizard, Whimsicott, Venasaur, Heliolisk e Meganium

Meu time é:
- Venasaur
- Rotom wash
- Incin
- Charizard
- Farigiraf
- Torkoal
Era para ser um time de sol, mas Venasaur é quase não usado porque Torkoal tem solar beam, o que devo fazer?

Eu poderia usar Garchomp para cobertura ou Sneasler para suporte? Ou deixo como está?

Você está usando trick room no Farigiraf? Além disso, com que frequência você o traz para as partidas?

Eu trago Farigiraf para quase todas as partidas, é muito útil e uso trick room 80% das vezes

Tudo bem então, sim, Venusaur tem uma anti-sinergia infeliz, mas poderia ser mantido como um mon fora do tr para diversificar suas opções

Eu geralmente deixo Venusaur e Zard de fora porque Torkoal é surpreendentemente versátil

Time de sol realmente não gosta de trick room, no entanto

Sim, Torkoal gosta, mas o resto teria uma velocidade média

A pergunta a se fazer é: o trick room se justifica como ofensiva principal se ele impede que meus sweepers brilhem para que apenas um Mon tenha sucesso?

Não sei, minha ofensiva principal geralmente é Torkoal, então

Agora você encontrou o seu problema

Torkoal não deveria ser sua ofensiva principal no sol

Esse é o mega Zard. Com Venusaur chlorophyll como seu sweeper de cobertura

Hmm, ok

O que você sugere que eu faça então? :]

Torkoal é um switch bulky que também bate forte, por isso ele está em times de sol. Além de um setter de sol secundário se você entrar na guerra climática

Sugiro que você tire Farigiraf e lidere de forma diferente

Se você precisa de suporte, traga Sinistcha

Quem seria meu setter de sol principal se não for Torkoal?

Também ajuda a cobrir sua fraqueza contra chuva e areia

Y Zard?

Ah, ups lol

Esqueci do Drought por um segundo

É o trabalho dele colocar o sol e sweepar nele lol

Devo investir defensivamente em Torkoal então?

Ele literalmente não tem outro uso neste time lol

Yep! Dê a ele, acho que é lava plume? Como ataque

Ou talvez eruption

Aquele que é baseado na saúde

Agora está heat wave, então ok :p

Então defesa especial e defesa? Ou HP deveria ser uma prioridade?

eruption

O Torkoal está assim neste momento

252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

Bold

Tudo bem :p

Livre-se de solar beam

Você não precisa dele

Alguma ideia de substituição?

Se ele é suporte, helping hand funcionaria?

Coloque body press se ele ainda aprender

Ou helping hand também funcionará

Body press ainda está lá :p

Ele é uma parede, não suporte

A defesa dele será suficiente para evitar que ele seja morto antes de poder fazer qualquer coisa?

Suponho que eu deveria trocar o charcoal dele por algo então?

Porque a distribuição dos itens está assim neste momento

Dê a ele shuca berry

Tudo bem

E alguma ideia de movimentos, item e distribuição para Sinistcha? Nunca montei um

Ele sobreviverá a tudo, menos a uma bomba, por pelo menos dois turnos

Turnos

Matcha gatcha, protect, life dew, rage powder, invista em bulk

Isso é ambas as defesas ou eu maximizo HP?

Aqui

Use meus movimentos, item e setup

Muito obrigado!! :]

Para Sinistcha

O meu é feito para sustain máximo. Eu o uso para manter Gengar vivo por três turnos

Tudo bem!! :] Muito obrigado!!

Uma última pergunta, Incin atualmente tem aquela baga, então alguma sugestão de item para ele? (Rotom-Wash tem leftovers)

Quem tem quick claw

Ninguém

Dê a ele

Ele proca muito frequentemente, fazendo-o se mover primeiro

Tudo bem, obrigado :p

Sim

Tudo bem, vou conseguir tudo para Sinistcha e espero que funcione, muito obrigado!! :p

Monte e brinque com esse setup e se por algum motivo algo for difícil de jogar, me pingue e me conte, vamos trabalhar em um counter

Obrigado, farei isso! :p

Não estou lutando contra nada específico, mas também estou lutando para entrar no nível ultra ball, alguma sugestão?

Não tenho dificuldades contra nada em particular, mas estou a ter dificuldade em chegar à Ultra Ball 1 e acima. Alguém tem sugestões?

O que está te impedindo de ganhar

Honestamente, tenho deixado Rotom Wash e Venasaur para trás na maioria das vezes, já que Incin é um suporte tão bom, Zard é um ótimo sol e o coloca, Torkoal é ótimo se alguém colocar trick room + eruption e suporte de sol secundário e Sinisitcha é apenas bom de ter lol

Rock slide, tipos pedra em geral, principalmente uma variedade de coisas

Saur cobre as fraquezas de y zards, é por isso que ele está lá lol Koal é uma escolha de nicho que você traz se vir um trick room difícil.

Saur

Sim, bom ponto lol

Esse é todo o trabalho dele: parar água, parar pedra e terra

Obrigado, não sei por que não considerei isso ngl 😭

Chlorophyll saur é incrivelmente rápido e bate como um caminhão

Literalmente por essa razão exata 😂

Ups lol

Alguma crítica geral sobre as builds dos meus mons tho? :]

Além disso, eu praticamente nunca megaevoluio Venasaur, devo dar a ele um item diferente ou você ainda acha que a pedra vale a pena, só por precaução?

Ele não precisa de pedra, você pode dar a ele focus sash

Tudo bem :p

Alguma outra dúvida geral de time/build? :]

Meio difícil de counterar times de sol, já que meu rotom wash está sendo one shot por solar beam toda vez que tento

Atualmente estou lidando com:
- Torkoal nunca vindo para a batalha
- Venasaur sendo quase inútil fora do sol
- Rotom Wash sendo one shot por solar beams e, portanto, sendo um counter ruim para outros times de sol com frequência
- Sneasler.

Time de Sol Zard Y

Eu ia mencionar hydreigon também, embora possa não se encaixar super perfeitamente no seu time. Isso é o que eu tenho usado para ajudar contra zard e garchomp tho

Aqui está o time se você não quiser rolar para cima :p

Sim, isso não é tão ruim, eu provavelmente ainda sentiria falta daquela cobertura de tipo água tho ngl, mas quero dizer, talvez

Sim, pode não ser a melhor escolha no seu caso. Isso é apenas o que funcionou bem para mim

Tudo o que sei é que Wash continua morrendo, então preciso de algo que talvez não pereça instantaneamente, já que todo Zard roda solar beam e desatualizado

Quero dizer, rotom heat realmente não é uma má escolha ainda. Não ter cobertura de água é irritante, mas tbh não há muito por aí agora que precise de água especificamente.

Eu acho que ele não tem literalmente nada em Defesa Especial tbf 😭

Sim, eu faria alguns calcs com investimento em defesa especial primeiro 😭

Quero dizer, ok, então minhas opções são Hydreigon, Rotom Heat, H Goodra ou apenas tentar manter Wash com algum investimento em defesa especial

Ok, legal :p

Vou tentar isso :]

Eu acho que H goodra é um mon bastante subestimado neste meta, eu poderia tentar em algum momento também. Você só terá que rodá-los e ver como as opções se sentem no seu time!

Sim, fair enough! :p

Alguma ideia de como counterar Sneasler btw? A ruína da minha existência além de outros Zard Ys

Screw naquela coisa de gato

Ele é irritante af. Cobertura voadora geralmente é a mais fácil de encontrar? Mas ele é uma dor de lidar consistentemente 😭

Seu vena tem earth power?

Mhm

Olhando para H Goodra btw, parece tentador porque é além de bulky, é bulky a um ponto quase ridículo

damn

Mas vou investir na SD de Rotom primeiro e depois ver se ainda está me causando problemas

Sim, é isso que estou pensando. Sua defesa especial é tão alta que você pode se dar ao luxo de investir em defesa para tankar earthquakes. Heat waves não seriam quase nenhum problema

Sim...

Definitivamente vou considerar se eu permanecer em um estado de limbo (o que estou atualmente, não consigo escapar do fundo do ranking Ultra)

A única coisa é que sap sipper não redireciona solar beam, apenas come. Útil se você chamar um switch, mas não tanto se já estiver em campo

Estou lutando para sair do ranking ultra ball médio lol, preciso trabalhar em colocar meus trick rooms mais consistentemente, esse é o meu maior problema

Mas quero dizer, um pokémon capaz de comer movimentos de grande impacto enquanto usa seus próprios movimentos de tipo água e outros tipos para counterar Zard Y e Incin soa bem

Oh sim, é def ainda legal, só não vai proteger seu parceiro de receber o laser verde, é só isso

Btw, meu Venasaur atualmente conhece Weather Ball, Synthesis, Solar Beam e Earth Power, mas sem sol parece um pouco sem brilho, alguma sugestão para especificamente outro movimento de tipo planta que eu possa adicionar para substituir Weather Ball?

Energy ball é meio que o único outro

Giga drain também se você quiser alguma recuperação, mas não é a coisa que bate mais forte por aí.

Hmmm okokok

Vou tentar ver o quão bom Rotom W está agora com alguns stats investidos em SD, mas se não, estamos H Goodra-maxing

Ou pelo menos testando H Goodra lmao

I might start H goodra maxing on my team too lowkey lol, it'll slot in nice in trick room if I decide to pivot to a hard TR team

Ngl I've found my Torkoal a little weak tho, it's a secondary sun setter I never feel the need to bring because Zard always does it when mega evolving

Honestly wondering if it's worth having both R Wash and Goodra and removing Torkoal...

But I dunno

Yea torkoal honestly isnt super great here outside of trick room

tbh if you need another sun setter go prankster whimsicott with sunny day

Bro never comes to any of the battles because I don't use Trick Room and apart from in Trick Room he's painfully sloe

Plus you can tailwind and encore which is helpful. I just got my ass kicked earlier by a sunny day whimsicott and venasaur lol, they didnt even need zard

Lmao what did they use?

As in, the Whimsicott?

I want ideas...

(if you want to be really funny you can use worry seed. It gets prankstered and you can remove other charizard or venasaurs abilities lol)

Especially because I already have a Whimsicott I just removed them cuz I wanted Sinistcha instead

They had a pretty standard set. Sunny day, tailwind, moonblast and I cant remember the 4th move

Hm okkk

But bro got a sunny day and tailwind off with venasaur next to it, it was over for me lol

Venasaur is already so so so fast in sun tho so Tailwind almost feels odd

I also had a whimsi so they were counter-tailwinding me

Ohhhh ok

I run a soft trick room team with a tailwind mode, I brought the tailwind mode into that fight. Big mistake.

Torkoal definitely has to go, just thinking if I want to just add His Goodra or Whimsicott

I mean, technically if I eliminate (remove) both Rotom and Torkoal I could have both

Yea id get rid of torkoal first

I think for now I'll remove Torkoal for Whimsicott and just see how Rotom fairs in the coming matches

Yea, I like to make 1 change at a time and see how it works

If I make too many at once it can be tough to gague what the changes I made are actually doing lol.

I used to run a sun trick room Torkoal Farigiraf that got me a 7 win streak but I removed Farigiraf because although the trick room bit was slightly cracked once Torkoal died it was over and nobody else could fair well in trick room

So even tho it was a really effective strategy the price I had to pay for it on the other members was too big

Im running mega crab, farigaraf, and primarina as my TR side

My hydreigon has middling speed so it fits in both TR and tailwind, hes either a cleanup sweeper in TR or a lead in tailwind

Yeah, sounds really good!!

The crab goes bonkers if TR is up, my struggle has been getting up consistently tho. It can be tough to keep farigaraf alive long enough to get it off if I make a bad prediction, so im debating slotting in another trick room setter possibly, But thats a later issue

Any idea of an item for Whimsicott btw?

OOO I've just had a brainwave

I can give my rotom wash an berry that lowers the effectiveness of grass type moves on first hit

And then I can move my washs leftovers to Venasaur and then the focus sash to Whimsicott

I think that sounds solid enough

focus sach

always sach

That could work. You could also give venasaur a berry

One of the ones that reduces a super effective attack. Maybe either ground or fire depending on what you get hit with more

Im assuming incin has the sitrus berry?

Incin has Sitrus

Figured

hmnmmm you could also maybe give venasaur the overgrown root if you want is solar beam to hit like an even bigger truck. Plus itll up giga drains damage if you go that route

Wait so I take it leftovers Venasaur isn't a good idea?

You could also give whimsicott mental herb to stop taunt, tho thats a lot more niche than focus sash

Are you running him as a bulky sweeper or a fast one?

Fast

Where do I get the overgrown root?

Then I wouldn't personally. If you dont really plan for venasaur to be tanking a bunch of hits then leftovers won't do much

The only thing that I see in the shop that boosts grass type moves is miracle seed

I think its in the shop?

Thats it

I mixed up the name with something else lol

Fair enough :p

I'll give Rotom back the leftovers if they aren't be used then?

Yea

he likes them

Now is the moment of truth to see how the team is now doing :p

Mainly testing Whimsicott since I've not come up against a Zard Y

Or a Zard at all

It be like that someties

thankfully whimsi is good as an alternate sun setter or just a useful lead

What moves are you running?

Memento, Sunny Day, Moonblast and Tailwind

Ahhh damn I'm up against a trick room team

Damn

You could maybe swap memento with taunt or encore to help with trick room unless its farigaraf

My Venasaur just got murdered by a psychic gorilla lmao

Yea, good idea :]

I personally like encore but both are equally valid so just depends what you want. Both are equally useless against giraffe

True

I should really recognise a trick room team by Orangoru and plan accordingly lmao

Yea hes kinda a tell tale sign

Dang Draco Meteors are scary

But if I used Goodra I could dish out my own...

I don't want to write off Rotom until I have more experience with him with his newly invested special bulk

But yk

Can't say it isn't tempting to just toss him aside 😭

I'd just need to see how well Goodra H can take heat waves though

Oof this is kinda rough for Rotom

Half health due to one sun boosted energy ball

It is super effective tbf...

I think my heart is set on H Goodra

It's insanely bulky, learns curse, can counter solar beam because it cannot be hit by it, can take heat waves, can use rock slide

Yea rotom is like middling bulky. Hes useful, but power creep is starting to catch up to his bulk

Plus not having assult vest really hurts him, he kinda needed that

It's officially settled, Goodra is the goat

Just used him, I set up one shelter so +2 defence and he ate an earthquake and only lost 15 hp...

And then he can hit back with a body press and decimate

Have you tried garchomp

Nein, kinda lacking room in the team tbh but Goodra is doing quite well

Kinda conflicted though because Sneasler learns rock slide which could shut down Zards

Let me know if there's anything you'd change

Obviously open to any advice, especially if you don't think a mon works for whatever reason

Starting to think I'm missing a Sneasler that can use rock slide to deal with other sun teams though, might replace Goodra :d

But yea, lmk what you think about that since Sneasler could shut down sun teams and I wanna have smthn to do that but Rotom Wash didn't cut it

Swords dance rock slide dire claw protect/fake out or something could work

But requires a setup before using

Could drop swords dance

But it'll take more than one shot

I dunno, I've seen Zard's (at least my one) get one shot by no set up rock slide

But that build 100% works yea

Maybe I'm wrong I haven't done the calcz

I just know it isn't stab

So I would assume one isn't enough

Zard is pretty frail tbf

Alright, I'll do that tomorrow then

I dunno why I didn't think of that ngl, I'm struggling against Sneasler so ofc Sneasler is great against opposing sun teamd

I mean I use t-tar to one shot mine

One shot Zard?

But I haven't had time to build outside of a single team

Yep

I mean I could and that's definitely an option but Sneasler is too strong for me to deny atp, I always lose to them 😭

Yeah I'm just saying that to show I haven't done any testing with anyone else

I run perish trap lmao

I've only run into Perish Trap once so far and Darkest Lariat saved me before it got too serious lol

But without Incin I would've been screwed, pure luck on my end

The fact you hit Gengar at all means they didn't play right lol

How were they meant to stop me? Just curious

Sinistcha next to him with rage powder

To alternate protect and substitute

That would've been really smart, unfortunately they had Sneasler instead

I think that's the only time I've ever beat a Sneasler

Yeah I'm in masterball with that team currently

I respect the art of perish trap, but also I want to fling every gengar I see into the sun

But yea rock slide sneasler should OHKO zard. Its quad weak and has low defense, I think rock throw could kill that thing lol

Just kill the shadow tag user and perish falls apart lmao

M. Golurk Denies perish trap

I love M golurk

Can't protect completely

So you take damage. Kills sinistcha in one hit sometimes

So you can't heal

Substitute stall doesn't work either

And he can swap out lmao

I wanna run more Golurk but theres so many dark ice and grass to keep him alive a lot of the time

Poor Goodra saw like two games but turns out it struggles to dish out high damage via rock slide which makes it a little redundant sometimes

And I guess my teams not all about being bulky anyway, Sneasler fits my hit hard and fast or go home policy lmao

Hisuian

Makes sense, it was a good experiment though!

Still might have some potential on rain teams but it’s physical attack ig just isn’t quite enough to do what it needs

Plus setting up against sun teams is near impossible because they're all running Encore Whimsicott so if I try use any sort of set up move I'll be Encored into oblivion lol

Turns out Whimsicott + Venasaur is deadly combo that allows for absolute, total weather dominance

When they just bring one rain setter, there is no weather war, just a weather attempt lol

Any ideas on how to improve this team a little bit? Don't really ever bring Sinistcha, so I'm mainly looking for suggestions regarding them

Garchomp

Remove quick claw from incin

I personally prefer mental herb on my tailwind setter but sash is usable as well depending on the preference

But If it was me I would run mental herb whimsicott sash sneasler either chople, shuca, or sitrus berry incin

Then choice band garchomp

Hmmm, I'm kinda thinking about an anti trick room mon tbh, any ideas?

Also choice band isn't in the game

Mainly since Farigiraf trick room teams keep knocking me down ultra ball tier

I dunno if Garchomp would work for that but lmk any ideas since trick room is 9/10 the main issue I'm facing

Perhaps a good taunt user?

I would go for Taunt Whimsicott but Farigiraf cares not for prankster

Incin learns it, if you can think of a good move to move out of Incin I could slide it in there and use him as an anti trick room measure and then add Garchomp (Incin has fake out, darkest lariat, a move I forgot the name of that attacks both opponents and lowers special attack and parting shot)

I meant scarf

Fair enough, do you have any ideas for what I said above though regarding Incin as an anti trick room measure? :]

Like what move to remove?

(Also I'd appreciate an idea for Gachomp's general build since Garchomp does seem like a good idea)

Incin shouldn't have a spread move

Change that one

Wrong ss

Use that

Thank you :p

Asking for any advice, stuck at the very top of Ultra ball but cannot enter master ball no matter how hard I try

Which is a tad bit annoying because I genuinely just want this team to get into master ball and then I'm done I'm going back to playing cozy Pokopia 😭

Pretty standard sun what are you having problems facing?

Sometimes sandstorm stuff, sometimes rain teams, sometimes trick room if they can fake out incin

Tbh I really don't know what I'm doing wrong, that's what makes this so frustrating

Still not made it to Master Ball...

Hey I would say drop whim on this team

Venu sun usually doesn't include it

Because you already want sash on venu

Venu should be protect sleep powder leaf storm sludge bomb imo

I'm curious as to what I'd replace Whim with? I find it really useful so I'm wondering why I wouldn't want it

Also, if sun is up 99% of the time, why would I drop Solar Beam for a move with 10 more BP but a way worse drawback?

You want that extra power in quite a few mu plus rain and sand might be a problem for you

I mean, maybe I'll drop Whimsicott for Basculegion

I've seen strong teams have that fire water grass core

Plus I've seen some really strong sun teams run Basc

I wouldn't mind any opinions tho, I'll probably put sludge bomb on Vena but I don't really wanna sacrifice solar beam tbh

Idk you can keep it but in ten weather war meta I really really don't wanna get locked into beam

Plus leaf storm helps with some calcs

And you absolutely need protect to double tect Vs most fake out leads

And put sash on it so you can live one

Also weather ball is more common over air slash I think

Idk what basc you would run here

Because you already had a scarfer

Yea but it's kinda a one hit thing and then I have -2 special attack

Current team if anyone has more suggestions, pretty content with my mon choice but if anyone comes up with anything absolutely genius I'll defo consider it :3

I'm glad you think so, currently struggling to get out of tier 1 of Ultra Ball but that might just perhaps be me ngl 😭

But I'm hoping maybe there's something I can do to push me up into master ball 😭😭

ev spreads is on the 2nd image, no?

like their stats

they're like hyper-specific, idk what else to do with them ngl

maybe i just have horrific luck or smthn idk, i can never get a win streak that's strong enough to push me into master ball

What have you been using haban chomp for

to counter opposing chomps and sun teams, it can easily tank a dragon claw and fire off rock slides that decimate zards

basically another chomp really struggles to stop me

would go scarf but basc doesn't allow it

and bascs speed is a real benefit so i don't want to rob it of that

basc has been a real asset, wave crash is a nuke for ttars and garchomps and even excadrills

i did trial scovillian very early in the teams lifespan but i couldn't get it to work, very curious as to how wolfe got to 1 with it ngl

but it looks more of a trick room optimal mon so nahhh

Also kinda curious if E Floette would work on my team? It's such a power house so if I'm really stuck, I dunno if it's an obvious boost or not

I'm starting to think my problem is that my team is too generic, everyone's seen something like it, I'm wondering if there's any way to spice it up?

Genuinely might give up man, keep falling down tiers 😭