Discusión sobre equipos de sol e ideas de construcción

Ok, reemplacé a Garganacl por Armarouge, pero ¿sería Venasaur una mejor opción?

sí, si no vas a megaevolucionar a Meganium, cámbialo por Venusaur; quizás valga la pena reemplazar a Scovillain también, pero no se me ocurre nada mejor ahora, ¿quizás una forma de Rotom para cobertura eléctrica?

hmm, muy buenas ideas... la verdad es que me está siendo útil Meganium

reemplaza a Scovillain por Venasaur y a Armarouge por Heliolisk para tener cobertura eléctrica, que va muy bien bajo el sol, ¿qué opinan?

entonces Torkoal, Charizard, Whimsicott, Venasaur, Heliolisk y Meganium

Mi equipo es:
- Venasaur
- Rotom wash
- Incin
- Charizard
- Farigiraf
- Torkoal
Se supone que es un equipo de sol, pero casi no uso a Venasaur porque Torkoal tiene solar beam, ¿qué debería hacer?

¿Podría usar a Garchomp para cobertura o a Sneasler para soporte? ¿O lo dejo como está?

¿Estás usando trick room en Farigiraf? Además, ¿qué tan seguido lo sacas a pelear?

Saco a Farigiraf en casi todas las partidas, es muy útil y uso trick room el 80% de las veces

Vale, sí, Venusaur tiene una anti-sinergia desafortunada, pero podrías mantenerlo como un mon fuera de tr para diversificar opciones

Normalmente dejo a Venusaur y Zard atrás porque Torkoal es sorprendentemente versátil

Aunque a los equipos de sol no les gusta mucho el trick room

Sí, a Torkoal sí, pero el resto tendría una velocidad media

La pregunta es: ¿se justifica el trick room como ofensiva principal si impide que mis sweepers brillen para que solo un mon tenga éxito?

No sé, mi ofensiva principal suele ser Torkoal, así que

Ahora ya encontraste el problema

Torkoal no debería ser tu ofensiva principal bajo el sol

Ese es mega Zard. Con Venusaur chlorophyll como sweeper de cobertura

Hmm, ok

¿Qué sugieres que haga entonces? :]

Torkoal es un switch bulky que además pega fuerte, por eso está en equipos de sol. También es un setter secundario si entras en guerra de climas

Sugiero que quites a Farigiraf y cambies tu lead

Si necesitas soporte, trae a Sinistcha

¿Quién sería mi setter de sol principal si no es Torkoal?

También ayuda a cubrir tu debilidad contra lluvia y arena

¿Y Zard?

Ah, ups jajaja

Se me olvidó Drought por un segundo

Su trabajo es poner el sol y sweepear bajo él jajaja

¿Debería invertir defensivamente en Torkoal entonces?

Literalmente no tiene otro uso en este equipo jajaja

¡Sí! Dale, creo que es lava plume, ¿no? Como ataque

O quizás eruption

El que depende de la salud

Ahora mismo tiene heat wave, así que vale :p

¿Entonces defensa especial y defensa? ¿O debería ser prioridad HP?

eruption

Así está Torkoal ahora mismo

252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

Bold

Vale :p

Quita solar beam

No lo necesitas

¿Alguna idea de reemplazo?

Si es soporte, ¿serviría helping hand?

Ponle body press si todavía lo aprende

O helping hand también sirve

Body press sigue ahí :p

Es una pared, no soporte

¿Pero su defensa será suficiente para que no lo maten antes de hacer algo?

Supongo que debería cambiarle el charcoal por otra cosa entonces

Porque así están repartidos los objetos ahora mismo

Dale shuca berry

Vale

¿Y alguna idea de movimientos, objeto y stats para Sinistcha? Nunca armé uno

Sobrevivirá a todo menos a una bomba por al menos dos turnos

Turnos

Matcha gatcha, protect, life dew, rage powder, invierte en bulk

¿Eso es ambas defensas o maxeo HP?

Aquí

Usa mis movimientos, objeto y setup

¡¡Muchas gracias!! :]

Para Sinistcha

El mío está hecho para máximo sustain. Lo uso para mantener a Gengar vivo tres turnos

¡¡Vale!! :] ¡¡Muchas gracias!!

Una última pregunta, Incin tiene esa baya, ¿alguna sugerencia de objeto para él? (Rotom-Wash tiene leftovers)

¿Quién tiene quick claw?

Nadie

Dáselo

Se activa demasiado seguido y hace que se mueva primero

Vale, gracias :p

Sí

Vale, conseguiré todo para Sinistcha y espero que funcione, ¡¡muchas gracias!! :p

Arma y prueba ese setup, y si por alguna razón algo es difícil de jugar, avísame y lo vemos, encontraremos un counter

Gracias, ¡lo haré! :p

No sufro contra nada específico, pero me cuesta entrar en el rango Ultra Ball, ¿alguna sugerencia?

No se me está complicando nada en particular, pero me cuesta llegar a Ultra Ball 1 y más arriba. ¿Alguna sugerencia?

¿Qué te impide ganar?

Honestamente, he estado dejando atrás a Rotom Wash y Venusaur la mayoría de las veces porque Incin es muy buen soporte, Zard es genial bajo el sol y lo pone, Torkoal es genial si alguien pone trick room + eruption y soporte secundario de sol, y Sinistcha es simplemente bueno tenerlo jajaja

Rock slide, tipos roca en general, mayormente una variedad de cosas

Saur cubre las debilidades de Y Zard, por eso está ahí jajaja. Koal es una elección de nicho que traes si ves un trick room duro.

Saur

Sí, buen punto jajaja

Ese es todo su trabajo: detener agua, detener roca y tierra

Gracias, no sé por qué no consideré eso, la verdad 😭

Saur con chlorophyll es increíblemente rápido y pega como un camión

Literalmente por esa misma razón 😂

Ups jajaja

¿Alguna crítica general a las builds de mis mons? :]

Además, casi nunca megaevoluciono a Venusaur, ¿debería darle otro objeto o crees que la piedra vale la pena por si acaso?

No necesita la piedra, puedes darle focus sash

Vale :p

¿Alguna otra duda general de equipo/build? :]

Es un poco difícil hacer counter a equipos de sol porque mi Rotom Wash es debilitado de un golpe por solar beam cada vez que lo intento

Actualmente estoy lidiando con:
- Torkoal nunca viene a la batalla
- Venusaur siendo casi inútil fuera del sol
- Rotom Wash siendo debilitado de un golpe por solar beams y por lo tanto siendo un mal counter para otros equipos de sol muy a menudo
- Sneasler.

Equipo de sol Zard Y

Iba a mencionar a Hydreigon también, aunque quizás no encaje perfectamente en tu equipo. Eso es lo que he estado usando para ayudar contra Zard y Garchomp

Aquí está el equipo si no quieres subir :p

Sí, eso no está tan mal, aunque probablemente extrañaría esa cobertura de tipo agua, la verdad, pero bueno, quizás

Sí, puede que no sea la mejor opción en tu caso. Eso es solo lo que me ha funcionado bien a mí

Todo lo que sé es que Wash sigue muriendo, así que necesito algo que quizás no perezca al instante porque cada Zard usa solar beam y anticuado

Quiero decir, Rotom Heat realmente no es una mala opción todavía. No tener cobertura de agua es molesto, pero para ser honesto, no hay mucho por ahí ahora que necesite agua específicamente.

Supongo que literalmente no tiene nada en Defensa Especial, para ser justos 😭

Sí, yo haría algunos cálculos con inversión en defensa especial primero 😭

Quiero decir, ok, así que mis opciones son Hydreigon, Rotom Heat, H Goodra o simplemente intentar mantener a Wash con algo de inversión en defensa especial

Ok, genial :p

Intentaré eso :]

Creo que H Goodra es un mon bastante subestimado en este meta, podría probarlo en algún momento también. ¡Solo tendrás que probarlos y ver cómo se sienten las opciones en tu equipo!

Sí, justo! :p

¿Alguna idea de cómo hacer counter a Sneasler por cierto? La perdición de mi existencia aparte de otros Zard Ys

Al diablo con esa cosa felina

Es molesto af. ¿La cobertura voladora suele ser la más fácil de encontrar? Pero es un dolor manejarlo consistentemente 😭

¿Tu Vena tiene earth power?

Mhm

Mirando a H Goodra por cierto, parece tentador porque es más que bulky, es bulky hasta un punto casi ridículo

maldición

Pero invertiré en la SD de Rotom primero y luego veré si sigue causándome problemas

Sí, eso es lo que estoy pensando. Su defensa especial es tan alta que puedes permitirte invertir en defensa para tanquear terremotos. Las olas de calor no serían casi ningún problema

Sí...

Definitivamente lo consideraré si permanezco en un estado de limbo (en el que estoy actualmente, no puedo escapar del fondo del rango Ultra)

Lo único es que sap sipper no redirige solar beam, solo lo come. Útil si llamas a un cambio, pero no tanto si ya está en el campo

Estoy luchando por salir del rango medio de Ultra ball jajaja, tengo que trabajar en conseguir mis trick rooms más consistentemente, ese es mi mayor problema

Pero quiero decir, un pokémon capaz de comerse movimientos de gran impacto mientras usa sus propios movimientos de tipo agua y otros tipos para hacer counter a Zard Y e Incin suena bien

Oh sí, definitivamente sigue siendo bueno, solo que no protegerá a tu compañero de recibir el láser verde, eso es todo

Por cierto, mi Venusaur actualmente conoce Weather Ball, Synthesis, Solar Beam y Earth Power, pero sin sol se siente un poco mediocre, ¿alguna sugerencia para específicamente otro movimiento de tipo planta que pueda añadir para reemplazar Weather Ball?

Energy ball es casi el único otro

Giga drain también si quieres algo de recuperación, pero no es lo que pega más fuerte.

Hmmm okokok

Intentaré ver qué tan bueno es Rotom W ahora con algunas estadísticas invertidas en SD, pero si no, vamos a hacer H Goodra-maxing

O al menos probando a H Goodra jajaja

I might start H goodra maxing on my team too lowkey lol, it'll slot in nice in trick room if I decide to pivot to a hard TR team

Ngl I've found my Torkoal a little weak tho, it's a secondary sun setter I never feel the need to bring because Zard always does it when mega evolving

Honestly wondering if it's worth having both R Wash and Goodra and removing Torkoal...

But I dunno

Yea torkoal honestly isnt super great here outside of trick room

tbh if you need another sun setter go prankster whimsicott with sunny day

Bro never comes to any of the battles because I don't use Trick Room and apart from in Trick Room he's painfully sloe

Plus you can tailwind and encore which is helpful. I just got my ass kicked earlier by a sunny day whimsicott and venasaur lol, they didnt even need zard

Lmao what did they use?

As in, the Whimsicott?

I want ideas...

(if you want to be really funny you can use worry seed. It gets prankstered and you can remove other charizard or venasaurs abilities lol)

Especially because I already have a Whimsicott I just removed them cuz I wanted Sinistcha instead

They had a pretty standard set. Sunny day, tailwind, moonblast and I cant remember the 4th move

Hm okkk

But bro got a sunny day and tailwind off with venasaur next to it, it was over for me lol

Venasaur is already so so so fast in sun tho so Tailwind almost feels odd

I also had a whimsi so they were counter-tailwinding me

Ohhhh ok

I run a soft trick room team with a tailwind mode, I brought the tailwind mode into that fight. Big mistake.

Torkoal definitely has to go, just thinking if I want to just add His Goodra or Whimsicott

I mean, technically if I eliminate (remove) both Rotom and Torkoal I could have both

Yea id get rid of torkoal first

I think for now I'll remove Torkoal for Whimsicott and just see how Rotom fairs in the coming matches

Yea, I like to make 1 change at a time and see how it works

If I make too many at once it can be tough to gague what the changes I made are actually doing lol.

I used to run a sun trick room Torkoal Farigiraf that got me a 7 win streak but I removed Farigiraf because although the trick room bit was slightly cracked once Torkoal died it was over and nobody else could fair well in trick room

So even tho it was a really effective strategy the price I had to pay for it on the other members was too big

Im running mega crab, farigaraf, and primarina as my TR side

My hydreigon has middling speed so it fits in both TR and tailwind, hes either a cleanup sweeper in TR or a lead in tailwind

Yeah, sounds really good!!

The crab goes bonkers if TR is up, my struggle has been getting up consistently tho. It can be tough to keep farigaraf alive long enough to get it off if I make a bad prediction, so im debating slotting in another trick room setter possibly, But thats a later issue

Any idea of an item for Whimsicott btw?

OOO I've just had a brainwave

I can give my rotom wash an berry that lowers the effectiveness of grass type moves on first hit

And then I can move my washs leftovers to Venasaur and then the focus sash to Whimsicott

I think that sounds solid enough

focus sach

always sach

That could work. You could also give venasaur a berry

One of the ones that reduces a super effective attack. Maybe either ground or fire depending on what you get hit with more

Im assuming incin has the sitrus berry?

Incin has Sitrus

Figured

hmnmmm you could also maybe give venasaur the overgrown root if you want is solar beam to hit like an even bigger truck. Plus itll up giga drains damage if you go that route

Wait so I take it leftovers Venasaur isn't a good idea?

You could also give whimsicott mental herb to stop taunt, tho thats a lot more niche than focus sash

Are you running him as a bulky sweeper or a fast one?

Fast

Where do I get the overgrown root?

Then I wouldn't personally. If you dont really plan for venasaur to be tanking a bunch of hits then leftovers won't do much

The only thing that I see in the shop that boosts grass type moves is miracle seed

I think its in the shop?

Thats it

I mixed up the name with something else lol

Fair enough :p

I'll give Rotom back the leftovers if they aren't be used then?

Yea

he likes them

Now is the moment of truth to see how the team is now doing :p

Mainly testing Whimsicott since I've not come up against a Zard Y

Or a Zard at all

It be like that someties

thankfully whimsi is good as an alternate sun setter or just a useful lead

What moves are you running?

Memento, Sunny Day, Moonblast and Tailwind

Ahhh damn I'm up against a trick room team

Damn

You could maybe swap memento with taunt or encore to help with trick room unless its farigaraf

My Venasaur just got murdered by a psychic gorilla lmao

Yea, good idea :]

I personally like encore but both are equally valid so just depends what you want. Both are equally useless against giraffe

True

I should really recognise a trick room team by Orangoru and plan accordingly lmao

Yea hes kinda a tell tale sign

Dang Draco Meteors are scary

But if I used Goodra I could dish out my own...

I don't want to write off Rotom until I have more experience with him with his newly invested special bulk

But yk

Can't say it isn't tempting to just toss him aside 😭

I'd just need to see how well Goodra H can take heat waves though

Oof this is kinda rough for Rotom

Half health due to one sun boosted energy ball

It is super effective tbf...

I think my heart is set on H Goodra

It's insanely bulky, learns curse, can counter solar beam because it cannot be hit by it, can take heat waves, can use rock slide

Yea rotom is like middling bulky. Hes useful, but power creep is starting to catch up to his bulk

Plus not having assult vest really hurts him, he kinda needed that

It's officially settled, Goodra is the goat

Just used him, I set up one shelter so +2 defence and he ate an earthquake and only lost 15 hp...

And then he can hit back with a body press and decimate

Have you tried garchomp

Nein, kinda lacking room in the team tbh but Goodra is doing quite well

Kinda conflicted though because Sneasler learns rock slide which could shut down Zards

Let me know if there's anything you'd change

Obviously open to any advice, especially if you don't think a mon works for whatever reason

Starting to think I'm missing a Sneasler that can use rock slide to deal with other sun teams though, might replace Goodra :d

But yea, lmk what you think about that since Sneasler could shut down sun teams and I wanna have smthn to do that but Rotom Wash didn't cut it

Swords dance rock slide dire claw protect/fake out or something could work

But requires a setup before using

Could drop swords dance

But it'll take more than one shot

I dunno, I've seen Zard's (at least my one) get one shot by no set up rock slide

But that build 100% works yea

Maybe I'm wrong I haven't done the calcz

I just know it isn't stab

So I would assume one isn't enough

Zard is pretty frail tbf

Alright, I'll do that tomorrow then

I dunno why I didn't think of that ngl, I'm struggling against Sneasler so ofc Sneasler is great against opposing sun teamd

I mean I use t-tar to one shot mine

One shot Zard?

But I haven't had time to build outside of a single team

Yep

I mean I could and that's definitely an option but Sneasler is too strong for me to deny atp, I always lose to them 😭

Yeah I'm just saying that to show I haven't done any testing with anyone else

I run perish trap lmao

I've only run into Perish Trap once so far and Darkest Lariat saved me before it got too serious lol

But without Incin I would've been screwed, pure luck on my end

The fact you hit Gengar at all means they didn't play right lol

How were they meant to stop me? Just curious

Sinistcha next to him with rage powder

To alternate protect and substitute

That would've been really smart, unfortunately they had Sneasler instead

I think that's the only time I've ever beat a Sneasler

Yeah I'm in masterball with that team currently

I respect the art of perish trap, but also I want to fling every gengar I see into the sun

But yea rock slide sneasler should OHKO zard. Its quad weak and has low defense, I think rock throw could kill that thing lol

Just kill the shadow tag user and perish falls apart lmao

M. Golurk Denies perish trap

I love M golurk

Can't protect completely

So you take damage. Kills sinistcha in one hit sometimes

So you can't heal

Substitute stall doesn't work either

And he can swap out lmao

I wanna run more Golurk but theres so many dark ice and grass to keep him alive a lot of the time

Poor Goodra saw like two games but turns out it struggles to dish out high damage via rock slide which makes it a little redundant sometimes

And I guess my teams not all about being bulky anyway, Sneasler fits my hit hard and fast or go home policy lmao

Hisuian

Makes sense, it was a good experiment though!

Still might have some potential on rain teams but it’s physical attack ig just isn’t quite enough to do what it needs

Plus setting up against sun teams is near impossible because they're all running Encore Whimsicott so if I try use any sort of set up move I'll be Encored into oblivion lol

Turns out Whimsicott + Venasaur is deadly combo that allows for absolute, total weather dominance

When they just bring one rain setter, there is no weather war, just a weather attempt lol

Any ideas on how to improve this team a little bit? Don't really ever bring Sinistcha, so I'm mainly looking for suggestions regarding them

Garchomp

Remove quick claw from incin

I personally prefer mental herb on my tailwind setter but sash is usable as well depending on the preference

But If it was me I would run mental herb whimsicott sash sneasler either chople, shuca, or sitrus berry incin

Then choice band garchomp

Hmmm, I'm kinda thinking about an anti trick room mon tbh, any ideas?

Also choice band isn't in the game

Mainly since Farigiraf trick room teams keep knocking me down ultra ball tier

I dunno if Garchomp would work for that but lmk any ideas since trick room is 9/10 the main issue I'm facing

Perhaps a good taunt user?

I would go for Taunt Whimsicott but Farigiraf cares not for prankster

Incin learns it, if you can think of a good move to move out of Incin I could slide it in there and use him as an anti trick room measure and then add Garchomp (Incin has fake out, darkest lariat, a move I forgot the name of that attacks both opponents and lowers special attack and parting shot)

I meant scarf

Fair enough, do you have any ideas for what I said above though regarding Incin as an anti trick room measure? :]

Like what move to remove?

(Also I'd appreciate an idea for Gachomp's general build since Garchomp does seem like a good idea)

Incin shouldn't have a spread move

Change that one

Wrong ss

Use that

Thank you :p

Asking for any advice, stuck at the very top of Ultra ball but cannot enter master ball no matter how hard I try

Which is a tad bit annoying because I genuinely just want this team to get into master ball and then I'm done I'm going back to playing cozy Pokopia 😭

Pretty standard sun what are you having problems facing?

Sometimes sandstorm stuff, sometimes rain teams, sometimes trick room if they can fake out incin

Tbh I really don't know what I'm doing wrong, that's what makes this so frustrating

Still not made it to Master Ball...

Hey I would say drop whim on this team

Venu sun usually doesn't include it

Because you already want sash on venu

Venu should be protect sleep powder leaf storm sludge bomb imo

I'm curious as to what I'd replace Whim with? I find it really useful so I'm wondering why I wouldn't want it

Also, if sun is up 99% of the time, why would I drop Solar Beam for a move with 10 more BP but a way worse drawback?

You want that extra power in quite a few mu plus rain and sand might be a problem for you

I mean, maybe I'll drop Whimsicott for Basculegion

I've seen strong teams have that fire water grass core

Plus I've seen some really strong sun teams run Basc

I wouldn't mind any opinions tho, I'll probably put sludge bomb on Vena but I don't really wanna sacrifice solar beam tbh

Idk you can keep it but in ten weather war meta I really really don't wanna get locked into beam

Plus leaf storm helps with some calcs

And you absolutely need protect to double tect Vs most fake out leads

And put sash on it so you can live one

Also weather ball is more common over air slash I think

Idk what basc you would run here

Because you already had a scarfer

Yea but it's kinda a one hit thing and then I have -2 special attack

Current team if anyone has more suggestions, pretty content with my mon choice but if anyone comes up with anything absolutely genius I'll defo consider it :3

I'm glad you think so, currently struggling to get out of tier 1 of Ultra Ball but that might just perhaps be me ngl 😭

But I'm hoping maybe there's something I can do to push me up into master ball 😭😭

ev spreads is on the 2nd image, no?

like their stats

they're like hyper-specific, idk what else to do with them ngl

maybe i just have horrific luck or smthn idk, i can never get a win streak that's strong enough to push me into master ball

What have you been using haban chomp for

to counter opposing chomps and sun teams, it can easily tank a dragon claw and fire off rock slides that decimate zards

basically another chomp really struggles to stop me

would go scarf but basc doesn't allow it

and bascs speed is a real benefit so i don't want to rob it of that

basc has been a real asset, wave crash is a nuke for ttars and garchomps and even excadrills

i did trial scovillian very early in the teams lifespan but i couldn't get it to work, very curious as to how wolfe got to 1 with it ngl

but it looks more of a trick room optimal mon so nahhh

Also kinda curious if E Floette would work on my team? It's such a power house so if I'm really stuck, I dunno if it's an obvious boost or not

I'm starting to think my problem is that my team is too generic, everyone's seen something like it, I'm wondering if there's any way to spice it up?

Genuinely might give up man, keep falling down tiers 😭